FORD BF STFT and cold start issue

Hey everyone,

New to all this, but i've got a BF XR6 that is now turbo. Still running non turbo wiring harness and ecu but have had it tuned and makes roughly 330rwkw.

Since getting it tuned by a workshop, it doesn't like cold starts in winter. I've brought HP tuners and been playing with the idle and have made an improvement but its still not happy. It's running Siemens Deka 80lb injectors which i'm guessing could be half the problem. Once the cars warm it starts fine and has no issues.

I've attached my tune files. Mick.hpt is the original tune, Tune_7 is my touched up version.

Any help would be appreciated,

Michael

hey mate I couldn't open tune 7 but I looed at the mick tune and those flow rates on injectors is off the hook man for 80lb your lows at 160 and high at 91 the low for me is way too high it must drink like a fish its running nice and rich safe being a na motor but use scanner and look at ltft and stft your LTFT is still enabled you can disable it to tune it easier some people leave it off or put it back on but it could be something as small as a vaccum leak eg intake manifolid ,lines see how you go

Thanks man. Yeah it's a pig on fuel haha but I've fixed the flow rates and PW and all that and it's sooo much happier.

It's not an NA motor anymore, forged internals and deep dish Wiseco pistons.

I should have mentioned the actual problem haha on cold mornings it will start fine but it will lift the revs up to 2000rpm then down to about 1200rpm. Then it will lift and drop the revs by a few 100rpm until it's warm. In gear (ZF auto) it will try to drive itself, but I seem to have sorted that out with the P/N and Drive idle tables and multipliers. Cold start though is annoying the shit out of me.

Also my cruise control surges, it maintains speed but you can hear and feel the car lift the revs and drop them.

Car was originally flashed tuned to turn it from NA to turbo by capa, with the 80lb injectors and it was fine. After the last workshop tuned it to it's current power it's been nothing but problems.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginger1

Also my cruise control surges, it maintains speed but you can hear and feel the car lift the revs and drop them.

Car was originally flashed tuned to turn it from NA to turbo by capa, with the 80lb injectors and it was fine. After the last workshop tuned it to it's current power it's been nothing but problems.

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I've got similar setup to you. ive got BF NA ecu with turbo enabled, plus using Deka 60lb injectors.
Cold starts are OK but could be better.
I also had the same dramas with cold idle speed. It took me a while to get it sorted. I just set idle speed for park, neutral, in gear etc for 700rpm. Zero'd out all IDLE speed RPM adders except I added 100rpm extra for coolant temp until 40 degs, then 50rpm until 60 degs. (or something similar just for a slight idle increase)
Also, I have the same problems with cruise control surging and have never been able to sort it out. According to the service manual, the turbo ecus use the boost pressure sensor in the pipe between the intercooler and throttle body for some reference for cruise control.
I do not have this on mine, I am just using the turbo map sensor in the intake manifold.
I tried to connect a boost sensor to put in the up-pipe and I also connected the wiring and fitted the wastegate solenoid too and it doesn't work. The ecu keeps throwing fault codes after they are enabled. Im sure that the NA ecu's do not have the components required to drive the boost sensor or WG solenoid. I think the only way around it is to fit a turbo ECU. I have read similar stories about this issue on the PCMTEC forum.

I did try 80lb dekas initially and found them impossible to tune on petrol. They are OK on e85. The inj pulse width at idle and decal is non-linear at such small pulse widths that its impossible to get them right with petrol.
I found deka 60s are not too bad on petrol at low pulse widths (less than 2.0ms) but they work fine with ethanol.
You can do some trial and error with the injector lambda during cranking. I have logged around 20-22ms while cranking which tells me that they are practically wide open during crank. Try making the numbers in the table to all 1.0 and see if it improves or gets worse.

Thanks for the reply.

I was thinking about running the wiring for the map and boost solenoid, as I thought it might work since my ecu has the 3 plugs. Might have to find another means of boost control.

Looking at a set of ID1300s, hopefully might fix the issue.

I should of kept the factory NA tune and enabled the turbo but another workshop just flashed a turbo tune over the top.

I was wondering if a lower compression ratio would upset the idle? I think I've fixed it for now, I noticed on cold start the ecu was pulling -7 degrees of timing, so I changed spark on idle to 0 and it's alot better.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ginger1

Thanks for the reply.

I was thinking about running the wiring for the map and boost solenoid, as I thought it might work since my ecu has the 3 plugs. Might have to find another means of boost control.

Looking at a set of ID1300s, hopefully might fix the issue.

I should of kept the factory NA tune and enabled the turbo but another workshop just flashed a turbo tune over the top.

I was wondering if a lower compression ratio would upset the idle? I think I've fixed it for now, I noticed on cold start the ecu was pulling -7 degrees of timing, so I changed spark on idle to 0 and it's alot better.

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I have attached some other tunes that I saved from the repository that you should compare yours too. It might give you some ideas.
ID1300s might be too big depending on how much power you want to make. With VCM Scanner, log injector pulse width in Ms and injectory duty cycle and see where you're at @ WOT in the higher RPM's. I think its better to keep your injectors at around 80-100% duty at the boost that you want to run so that they are sized correctly. If they are only 50-60% then they will be difficult to control down low. It all depends on how fussy you are with the calibration.
If you haven't read this article already its worth a read.

http://injectordynamics.com/articles/low-pulse-tech/

Also if your ecu is pulling -7 deg of timing that means that it is trying to bring the IDLE RPM speed down to the desired idle speed by reducing the ignition timing. That setting is the most that you will allow.
Its also an indication that something else is wrong.
In VCM Scanner, log you idle airflow trims and different rpms in PARK, neutral and then in drive separately and compare them to the setting you have in your ecu file. They should be very similar or within +- 0.1 if not keep adjusting them to suit your engine.
Attachment 82546Attachment 82547Attachment 82548

I have the opposite problem than you LOL. I am trying to tune a BA NA engine with a BF NA ecu with a turbo tune on E85. Lots of trial and error. Hours and hours of datalogging, plenty of runs at the drag strip. I'm down to 11.10 @125mph now on 18psi.

typically deka 80# are quite rich at idle and crank in open loop before closed loop starts working. mainly because they're a crude tap and IMO the worst injector to tune on a barra.


try loading the factory voltage offset values. 93 lb/hr low 88lb/hr high 0.0000200lb breakpoint and 0.45ms min PW.


then play with the relative ECT axis values in cranking fuel (lambda)

idle RPM adders when cold

fuel base cold

cranking spark