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I've been searching and found several links to some DIY wideband O2's, but I want to see what everyone thinks is the best deal going on right now. We don't need to run a wideband controller at all with HPT do we? I only plan to tune with it, not actually let the PCM know it even exists...:secret:
innovate's LC-1 is arguably the best. judged so in a 9-way test vs others on the market a while back.
Innovate's LC-1, on this forum, is arguably the worst wideband out there. There were so many issues with over heating and bad hardware/controller. I would stay away from it.
The LM-1 is much better...
That 9-way "test" was little more than a thinly veiled Innovate advertisement. The test methods were FAR from scientific and only one unit had the benefit of a digital connection to the datalogger, which conveniently enough was also provided by the "winning" sensor. It was published in media where the winning sensor was an advertiser, so there's no coincidence that the results were favorable toward those who pay...
The only good thing about that test was their acknowledgement that the ECM AFM1000 was a "reference" unit. Budget units aside, the absolute "BEST" widebands are made by ECM. I use one, so does every engine test lab at GM, Ford, Chrysler, and the EPA. Not a coincidence.
If you must buy an "affordable wibeband" the NTK AFX is actually made by ECM and retains much of the reference unit's accuracy. I've also seen good results from the PLX and Motec units.
Where would one but an ECM AFM1000? I went to the website and could not find pricing. TIA!
Thanks for the opinions. Is there anything wrong with buying a Bosch LSU 4.2 and logging it through the EGR feed (my truck doesn't have EGR, but is wired for it)??? Do you have to have a controller? I just want to log the output wire, right? Then use a custom PID?
Why was this moved to the VCM enhanced IO forum? I don't have enhanced IO, I'm going to use the EGR lead on my standard version, so enhanced IO doesn't really apply, right?
All WB questions are in this sub-forum.
You still need the controller to output the voltage to the wire.
So the controller puts the voltage signal from the O2 back to the PCM? I thought the O2 sensor had a 5V reference signal and the varying volts back to the PCM was altered depending on the changing resistance of the O2... am I smoking crack???:doh:Quote:
Originally Posted by WS6FirebirdTA00
The AFM 1000 is not cheap, I use an AFX and am very pleased with it. Its inexpensive, and works with NTK sensors as well.
You will have to contact ECM directly for a quote. Keep in mind that there are generally no "deals" on lab grade equipment, but you get exactly what you pay for.
The LSU4.x itself is just a sending unit. Some wideband controllers (including the whole ECM line) can work with either the Bosch or NTK sending units. The output of this is actually a variable pump current, not voltage. It takes the control box to properly convert this pump current into either a visual display or a usable 0-5v output signal that you can use with a datalogger. Many different widebands use the Boshc LSU4.x sensors, but the real difference lies in the control logic of the box and how they control tip temperature of the sensor, read pump current, and properly compensate for temperature when converting to lambda output. This is what separates the "affordable" units from good equipment.
I use the FJO wideband with the NTK O2 sensor. I've tuned many vehicles with it since 2003. Never had a problem with it.
http://www.fjoracing.com/index.php
Russ Kemp
The "test" that was mentioned earlier had me worried for a while too! I have the NTK AFX and really like what it does.(or what I thought it did) With Russ K's and Greg's help I feel just fine using my wideband of choice. Had the car "tail pipe tested"(emmisions test in Ontario)and while commanding 14.7 they read 14.8. Pretty good in my books!
Paul
http://wbo2.com/2j/default.htm
I have been using techedge units for about 6 years.The link above is the one i just fitted permanently in to my own car wire through the EGR and it logs exactly what the display says unlike innovate. I has no gimmicky blingy feature but is acurate. I have a lm-1, lc1(both as crap and unreliable as each other) as well as 2 techedge units and motec plm. I tune alot of boats and forced induction 4-6-8 cylinder engines the innovate was unreliabe in anything running cam or F I as you would be halfway through a dyno run and it would shut down "sensor timing error". I have purchased the various unit for specific applictions but found the tech edge most compact and versitile.
The is just my oppinion im sure i will be corrected.
:cheers:
lc-1 gives me alot of troubles. use your judgement.
I've use a Horiba 8 channel while working at Edelbrock but that one is definitely not in any way shape or form affordable. :D
Greg, have you had any experience with or know of anyone using the ETAS wideband?
We had a couple of them when I worked at SiemensVDO. It's very similar to the ECM stuff, but the case is significantly bulkier. ETAS (who is owned by Bosch) makes the software tools and interface hardware that we used for the ECU calibration interface, so integrating the LA4 was really easy. It definitely qualifies as "good equipment."Quote:
Originally Posted by EC_Tune
I still preferred the ECM AFM1000s we had in most of the test vehicles though. We just ran their 0-5v output to our analog input box (ETAS Dual-Scan, which also carried the thermocouple inputs) that was on the data acquisition bus anyway.
As I was reading about the ETAS WB and noticed that you could customize for the exact fuel you were using at the time. Great for development with a specific fuel (Indolene and Phase 4 comes to mind) but very hard for the average user to know the fuel composition as every fuel producer puts their own additives in the basic fuel.
Are any of these as picky about grounding as the stupid LC-1?
The NGK has a separate D/A output with ground & signal so it should have no issues like the notorious LC1.
I can't tell you the last time I had ground loop issues with my ECM wideband. (But that's what I exect for the price!)
Changing fuel spec doesn't affect me that much since I usually work in Lambda. The ETAS unit is just applying an adjustable scaling to the measured lambda to give you a recognizable AFR display. All I really care is how rich/lean I am relative to wherever the stoich point is. The hardest part is making sure that the PCM knows this stoich point in the first place.