Bank 2 VE Tables

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09-21-2018
kenandjenn4551

Bank 2 VE Tables

Since I have Bank 1 really dialed in, I moved my wideband over to bank 2 and started logging.

Closed loop looked very good...much like bank 1, which was no shock.

However, open loop WOT fueling was a good bit richer than bank 2.

I tune bank 1 for 0.87 Lambda, which is 12.4 AFR using E7 fuel.

Bank 2 was running around 0.83 Lambda, which is 11.9 AFR.

I wasn't shocked at the difference, but I did find that any changes to the Bank 2 VE table did nothing.

I enabled Bank 2 before I even started, but it appears the switch doesn't work in the tune.

Is there anything HP Tuners can do to get this working? I leaned Bank 1 by 1% to bring Bank 2 to around 0.84, but I really want to get them both at 0.87.

I suspect some of my Bank 2 ST KNK is the car being slightly to rich.
09-22-2018
mourat

I wouldn't bother to be honest. Without actually checking every cylinder individually, the fact that this is happening. One cylinder is most likely taking more air than another through reversion. Since O2s can't read fuel, and only oxygen. You might be running on the lean side on one cylinder and rich on another. If you adjust them to be the same without actually logging either EGTs or knowing what the A/F (FA) is of each, it may look pretty. But doesn't fix the underlying issue. To each their own though.
09-22-2018
kenandjenn4551

I thought it might be a fuel pressure issue as well. With the Edelbrock fuel rails, Bank 2 feeds directly off the factory fuel line and then the crossover feeds Bank 1..... so I can see how Bank 2 could have slightly more pressure.

The good thing is my lambda is incredibly linear, on both banks, during a WOT pull. This tells me I don't have any rogue cylinders.

I'm using GT500 52lb injectors and they have been incredibly easy to dial in. I'm sitting at about 60% duty cycle with them.

Since I leaned Bank 1 VE yesterday by 1%, my lambda was at 0.875 (12.5 AFR) this morning which is as lean as I will run it.

I'm not sure what this brought bank 2 up to, but I would assume probably 0.84 or so.

In reality, running Bank 2 one half point richer probably isn't costing me little if any power, so I will let it be for now.
09-22-2018
Hemituna

There are some corrections you can use in Fuel/open loop/mass delivered.
Often the OE tune has some changes made here , so you may be chasing them if you have changed the manifold.
09-22-2018
kenandjenn4551

Big thanks for that. Hopefully, this will be exactly what I need. I reduced each Bank 2 cylinder by 2% from 4k rpm on up.

I used the RPM multiplier, as this looked easier for WOT use.
09-23-2018
Moparmatty

What is the vehicle you are working on?

I have no issues tuning Bank 1 VE versus Bank 2 VE on my 2006 SRT8 300.
09-23-2018
kenandjenn4551

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moparmatty

What is the vehicle you are working on?

I have no issues tuning Bank 1 VE versus Bank 2 VE on my 2006 SRT8 300.

2015 Challenger 6.4L.

After it didn't respond to some small changes, I cut 10% from Bank 2 and the lambda never changed.

I will contact HP about it next week. I hope the open loop tweak works, but it would be great to both VE tables working.

I suspect most people copy from Bank 1 to Bank 2 and HP isn't aware of the issue yet.
09-23-2018
Moparmatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenandjenn4551

I wasn't shocked at the difference, but I did find that any changes to the Bank 2 VE table did nothing.

I enabled Bank 2 before I even started, but it appears the switch doesn't work in the tune.

Is Bank 2 VE switch enabled or disabled in the factory tune?

If it's disabled. Leave it that way and try making changes to the Bank 2 VE table and see what happens.
09-24-2018
kenandjenn4551

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moparmatty

Is Bank 2 VE switch enabled or disabled in the factory tune?

If it's disabled. Leave it that way and try making changes to the Bank 2 VE table and see what happens.

Good idea. I'll give that a try.
09-24-2018
Moparmatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenandjenn4551

Good idea. I'll give that a try.

That's how my 2006 SRT is. HPT has the switch labelled backwards. Stock file shows disabled when it is actually enabled.
09-30-2018
kenandjenn4551

Confirmed....the mislabeled switch was the issue. I now have Bank 2 dialed in using the VE table.
09-30-2018
Moparmatty

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenandjenn4551

Confirmed....the mislabeled switch was the issue. I now have Bank 2 dialed in using the VE table.

Good stuff.
10-14-2022
GrannySShifting

Did HPTuners ever fix these mislabeled switches?!?
10-14-2022
mbray01

most yes, some no, if you come across one, you have to submit it to support to get fixed.
10-14-2022
GrannySShifting

Quote:

Originally Posted by mbray01

most yes, some no, if you come across one, you have to submit it to support to get fixed.

:doh:Why are we always having to do their job for them. Thats not exactly a easy thing to test
10-18-2022
spoolboy

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrannySShifting

:doh:Why are we always having to do their job for them. Thats not exactly a easy thing to test

Yeah, I bet someone makes a good salary for our efforts.
10-20-2022
GrannySShifting

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoolboy

Yeah, I bet someone makes a good salary for our efforts.

Should make a list of known CORRECT OS and known incorrect ones
10-31-2022
skala308

Most insightful posting, thanks all.
I would like to get some confirmation with my VE table readings and settings, with ANN disabled. 5.7 Jeep GC 2010 model with Eagle head, stock exhaust, but cats removed totally and recently MDS delete when discovered hydraulic lifter failure. Fortunately no cam lobes were "eaten", caught it in time. Jeep runs even better than before.

Back to VE tables. In my tune, not sure what the absolute stock tune setting was, but had the Jeep tuned before I got my own HP Tuners. So, VE Bank 2 Disable = No.
Logging fuel trims there was very noticeable difference between bank 1 and bank 2, with bank 2 running leaner; meaning more +readings with bank 1 more -readings.

By adjusting the VE tables for bank 1 and 2, I have managed to get both banks much closer and with much smaller + or - logged readings. There is a noticeable difference between the values of the 2 banks.

Would this indicate that the "VE Bank 2 Disable = No" setting in the tune is true?
11-02-2022
GrannySShifting

Quote:

Originally Posted by skala308

Most insightful posting, thanks all.
I would like to get some confirmation with my VE table readings and settings, with ANN disabled. 5.7 Jeep GC 2010 model with Eagle head, stock exhaust, but cats removed totally and recently MDS delete when discovered hydraulic lifter failure. Fortunately no cam lobes were "eaten", caught it in time. Jeep runs even better than before.

Back to VE tables. In my tune, not sure what the absolute stock tune setting was, but had the Jeep tuned before I got my own HP Tuners. So, VE Bank 2 Disable = No.
Logging fuel trims there was very noticeable difference between bank 1 and bank 2, with bank 2 running leaner; meaning more +readings with bank 1 more -readings.

By adjusting the VE tables for bank 1 and 2, I have managed to get both banks much closer and with much smaller + or - logged readings. There is a noticeable difference between the values of the 2 banks.

Would this indicate that the "VE Bank 2 Disable = No" setting in the tune is true?

I would say it is accurately labled in your OS then, what OS is it?

Other thing you have to watch for, is exhaust leaks will show up often and imbalance in fuel trims bank to bank, but they will narrow up at moderate throttle usually
11-04-2022
skala308

GrannySShifting, the OS is 68070551AA version 4.8.7 Suite 5.0.4

No exhaust leaks now, but had broken bolts and leaks before.

Thanks for reply