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Hello all,
In the middle of tuning my first Nissan, 2010 370z. I noticed that KR is not an available PID in the scanner. Is this for everyone or just me?
Ill be posting updates about the tuning process; today I played with spark a little (safely using DET CAN), DD, Cam Timing, a little of what seemed to affect the trans (although there are no tables or shift points to adjust) and the ETC system.
Welcome to a late model Nissan. KR is not something that the newer engines display in the datastream. Atleast my 2011 Infiniti M56S does not show it in Uprev or HPTuners and it uses the same timing control algarithim as the 370Z. In fact in these cars you cannot even directly control the timing advance. The ECU adds timing until the knock sensors are "tickled" and over time the ECU adapts to the timing advance. I ended up pulling timing via the IAT when I sprayed that car.Quote:
Originally Posted by txtailtorcher
So, the MBT 1234, Low Det 12, low det adj, High det 12 and the overall trim tables are just the targeted 'starting' and advances from there?
Also, I noticed the car dumped lots and lots of fuel, not even close to what commanded lambda was. After rescaling VE and MAF A&B I got it to track targeted but it would not richen up to commanded afr.
The tables are more or less a baseline for the ECU. The various tables are for different operating conditions. I pulled about 10 numbers out of my M56 made a dyno pull.Quote:
Originally Posted by txtailtorcher
Power fell way off and within 2 dyno pulls it had just as much timing and power as before.
All I did was slightly reduce the timing map, smooth it some and let the ECU do its thing.
Command air/fuel ratio is also tricky. When you make changes to the ECU it throws it into a learning mode. Over the next 200-300 miles as it learns your ECU will start getting closer to the targets.
I had a 2012 Titan with flex fuel that I put alot of bolt ons onto. I never actually needed more than a Hypertech programmer on that truck. With Uprev you really could not do much more than adjust the command air/fuel ratio and work on the timing map. You can optimize the cams and VVEL but that takes alot of effort for something Nissan has pretty close on a factory cammed vehicle. The air/fuel ratio was commanded at 12.6 and after the ECU leaned itself out as it learned it would hold its command air/fuel ratio very well. The Timing map on the older ECUs is the timing map though as they do not have the adaptive learning capability the newer VVEL ECUs do.
By reduce, I noticed almost all timing numbers are negative with the exception of a few zeros and a 1 or 3. So are the timing tables in terms of BTDC(-) instead of how it is in other applications that are BTDC (+)?
Fueling, there is no way to force a commanded lambda? I was commanding .80 flat and it would hit .78 but the command in the scanner was 1.293: what determines targeted fuel? I read about BSF but HPT doesn't have the PID to show what fuel or timing table the car is targeting.
Ignition timing is in form of Cylinder Pressure vs Burn Rate.
This by itself to work out is a 5 line equation which the likes of Ecutek and Uprev have figured out. I was in the middle of writing a Nissan how-to guide, but I'm sure within the next update of HP Tuners it will change just like it did with the Dodges so thought I'd save wasting time till it's fully released.
UpRev is the only software that acknowledges "burn rate" as a unit. This is a made up unit that doesn't exist within Nissan. The map however does do the same thing since the references are the same, up is more timing down is less. The unit is the only thing that is made up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mep_q8
Hey Evan,Quote:
Originally Posted by evan.s@hptuners
by up and down you mean adding timing (positive numbers) and down as in negative? I'm still confused about the timing tables.
Ecutek also calls it "flame" rate as well. Care to elaborate a little more on the subject?
If it's not similar to burn/flame rate vs cylinder pressure (VVEL x VTC) could it be they're throwing old methods into new technology? As in,
With the older Nissans, base timing is set through the Cam angle sensor and easily adjustable by 2 screws from -5? to +15? and until we could actually tune them, adding 2-3? gained quite a bit of power. Would the timing strategy on the newer engines signify the same concept but controlled by the ECU instead of an adjustable sensor and also be affected by knock prevention?
I am just wondering if the ecu would readjust timing. How do you make more power from tuning the car then? Or all the gains is from fueling?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast4.7
On my M56 I gained almost NOTHING at all from tuning. All I was able to do is make the tune safer for the engine while it was learning. Timing did NOTHING. I was able tp set the command air/fuel ratio and clean up the MAF correction table to bring the fuel adaptives closer to Zero. These cars have factor widebands, are mass air and have adaptive timing strategies. If you have a naturally aspirated engine with stock injectors there is not much power to be found in the tuning itself. I think my M56 gained a couple of foot lbs here and there from Spark and Fuel changes. It was the cam phasing and VVEL adjustments that brought life into it. I actually adjusted up the VVEL minimum angle at idle and lower RPMs. Gave the car a tremendous boost in off-idle throttle response and low-end torque. VVEL does a majority of the throttling on the VVEL engines. Making the VVEL angle larger increase the intake cam duration and lift as well as made the corresponding IVT phaser move the cam. Made the cam more advanced. With my freer breathing engine (Intake/Exhaust) I found it liked a bit more intake cam duration as well as a bit more exhaust cam advance in the low-midrange. I found 20-40 ft/lbs at 2,000-4,000 rpm from cam changes. The VVEL and cam phasing changes also made the exhaust not much more pronounced and beefy.Quote:
Originally Posted by zperformance
https://youtu.be/wj2TbLIDPF0
^Previous post should say gained almost nothing from tuning Spark and Fuel beyond the leaning out the commanded target air/fuel ratio slightly.
The engine in that car runs very loud since it is Direct Injected. The high pressure pump and injectors are loud. Part of the reason I made intake and exhaust mods. I was tired of listening to the stupid fuel system.
Attachment 85109Quote:
Originally Posted by Mep_q8
Direct from EcuTek's website, they do not call it flame or combustion rate. Perhaps they called it that in an old version?