Intake Cam out of control ? - 2021 Coyote S

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06-19-2023
Mjschneidy

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Intake Cam out of control ? - 2021 Coyote S

Hi all, curious if anyone has seen this, I'm new to coyotes. 2021 Mach 1 is throwing a MIL for P0345 Cam position sensor bank 2. Datalog shows what appears to be a loss of cam control after initial warm up. Bank 2 intake cam varies much more than bank 1 and I assume after much of that or varying too far off course it then pops the fault code. Once the fault code is set it parks the cams at 0.

At cold start up (first graph) you can see the bank 2 intake cam (4th line) is not as steady as bank 1 intake cam (3rd line) which follows the desired timing (2nd line). You can also see the duty cycle for bank 2 is much more active than bank 1, bottom two lines.

After warm up (second graph) it appears to lose control or just give up and then fault sets, top line.

Is this a classic bad phaser on bank 2? I ask because this engine only has 8k miles but its not 100% stock. We built an aluminator clone short block for it using the GT500 oil pump and pan. That pump has a higher pressure at all RPMs than the stock pump. Could this be giving me issues? You'd think both cams would be unhappy if that were the case.

Background - Engine was rebuilt due to a spun rod bearing which was caught fairly early. Phaser screens did have a small amount of debris. New screens were installed and cams and heads cleaned. One head with scored journals replaced, other head was ok.

Thoughts? Appreciate any insight you might have.

Thanks, Mike
06-19-2023
Relentless

I recently had something similar to this. I replaced the solenoids first without any effect. Ended up being a the phaser.
06-19-2023
SiriusC1024

Could be a bad part. From a control standpoint there is too much gain for the current system (that system being the phaser, oil pressure, oil viscosity).

Adjust Feed Forward DC table for that cam.

If problem persists it might be the cam phaser, but it might be too much clearance on a cam journal.
06-20-2023
Thatwhite5.0

Always been the cam position sensor when I ran across that.
06-20-2023
smokeshow

Don't adjust anything in the toon... Replace the part.
06-20-2023
Mjschneidy

Thanks for the feedback so far. I should add that cam sensor was replaced already, easy quick, cheap, but no change. Also since the service manual diagnostic for P0345 took me down the path of an intermittent connectivity issue I swapped the harness with a known good harness. No change. It was after both of these that I data logged. Should have done that first.
06-20-2023
SiriusC1024

1 Attachment(s)

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokeshow

Don't adjust anything in the toon... Replace the part.

Which part would that be, dick? All that is known is that the issue is oil pressure-related. Phaser? Better be sure. It takes a lot more to tear into one of these motors than an LS.

Adjusting the toon can reveal a bad part. It might not be bad though. If adjustment doesn't do anything or the problem comes back then yeah phaser. Better than playing the parts lottery.

Or there could be something else bad but not worth replacing if the toon can compensate. One head was changed due to excessive wear, the other wasn't. So if one is on the loose side, and adjusting DC fixes it, totally worth it.

https://www.autoserviceprofessional....e-may-set-dtcs
"Wear in the thrust bearing cap could be the cause of the variable camshaft timing (VCT) setting DTCs due to oil leakage as a resulr of excessive clearance in the bearing cap. This in turn will not allow enough oil to feed the VCT Phaser for proper operation."

Attachment 133547

Let's see...adjust toon (free) or $3.5k in parts and labor. Hmmm.

Maybe even try something like 5w-40 Quaker State Euro.
06-21-2023
Mjschneidy

Running 5w-50 and with the GT500 pump I’m seeing 25psi at hot idle and 80-120psi off idle.
06-21-2023
smokeshow

I love when people come back and rage-edit their posts.
06-21-2023
SiriusC1024

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokeshow

I love when people come back and rage-edit their posts.

I love when people rage-PM about "mansplaining".
06-21-2023
veeefour

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mjschneidy

Running 5w-50 and with the GT500 pump I’m seeing 25psi at hot idle and 80-120psi off idle.

The only difference in that pump is a vale relief spring so they build up more pressure. GT350 has a stiffer spring too.
06-22-2023
Mjschneidy

Quote:

Originally Posted by veeefour

The only difference in that pump is a vale relief spring so they build up more pressure. GT350 has a stiffer spring too.

GT500 pump has a wider rotor for more volume too. If I can figure out why I can?t attach a jpeg I could show a side by side pic of the pump rotors, it notably wider. (Getting error messages with attachments)