End of an Era??? No more Ford tuning.

According to Mr. Whipple there will be no more tuning from 2018 on.

From: Dustin Whipple
Sent: Saturday, December 3, 2016 10:34 PM
To: Scott Johnson
Subject: Re: Shelby F150

Ya,you can legally make changes but they legally don't have to give you the sourcecode. I'm a mfg in the aftermarket, I know the laws pretty well. We're not Ford but we can still legally encrypt our intellectual property. Someone gets past the encryption then so be it. Next years pcm's you can't modify any parameter of any P code at an aftermarket level. Not illegal, just can't as it's hardwritten in the c code.

Thank you,
DustinWhipple
WhippleSuperchargers

On Dec 3, 2016, at 7:56 PM, Scott Johnson wrote:
This was adopted by the US copyright office on10/28/2015. It had provision whereby its effect would be delayed forapprox. one year. I have attached a copy for your reading enjoyment. In anutshell The US government believes when you sell your "hard work" for "hard-earned" dollars the buying party has a right to own it. Modify it. Replace it. But most certainly read it.

Computer programs that are contained in and control the functioning of a motorized land vehicle such as a personal automobile, commercial motor vehicle or mechanized agricultural vehicle, except for computer programs primarily designed for the control of telematics or entertainment systems for such vehicle, when circumvention is a necessary step undertaken by the authorized owner of the vehicle to allow the diagnosis, repair or lawful modification of a vehicle function; and where such circumvention does not constitute a violation of applicable law, including without limitation regulations promulgated by the Department of Transportation or the Environmental Protection Agency; and provided, however, that such circumvention is initiated no earlier than 12 months after the effective date of this regulation.

If Ford wants to run themselves out of business then let them is what I say ;) So far I haven't been happy with any of their racing cals - throttle hangs and in some instances - self revs during shifts to the point of barking the tires when you let the clutch back out, not safe to drive for other reasons either including the fact that it will leap way out then hold itself back with light throttle inputs, so if they make it to where only Ford racing calibrators are doing all of their tunes, then it won't be long before no one will buy a Ford product to modify!!! Dumbest thing any manufacturer can do...

I did talk to HPT about this - they said they will just have to wait and see if anything can be done calibrating wise, but if they've already given up on the racing cals, I regrettably don't hold out much hope?

He doesn't have much faith in the aftermarket, LOL.

Lol, im doubting tuning will stop. Will they be less forthcoming on info, probably, but to think no one is gonna crack the code, come on man, lol

Seeing as how there are people out there using old ford eecv pcms with custom operating parameters and things like gm code59 and the sloppy mess that is my $e6 code on my 8625 and all the other magic that happens just give it time. I mean if you really want to see what kind of encryption can be circumvented just look at the xbox, xbox 360, ps3, ps4 and all this other stuff. It's only software. Software can be broken in one way or another. I mean they broke HDCP protocols for sakes. Just give it time. If enough interest is passed to the security sector of computing it will get broken. Trust me some people just love to tinker.

Oh, there's no doubt that given enough time and investment that it won't be cracked - Eric had Whipple's encryption cracked in just a couple of days from the time I sent him the first file - possibly even less time than that - and after all the manufacturer still has to have a way to re-flash them at the dealerships level... It's just the simple fact that Ford is going to all of the investment and time to try and make things like this harder for everyone except for the individual companies working with them like whipple and roush - their shooting themselves in the feet is all they're doing - just that simple... Nobody buying a mustang or F150 or whatever is going to want to pay over a thousand bucks to have one tuned when they can go to GM or anyone else and buy a more tuner/modifiable friendly setup... Why would Ford bother with something like this? Their already having enough problems, so why add to it?

While we are on the topic, what about being able to check if the PCM has been reflashed for warranty issues? I know currently verifying the CVN's and checking the OBD key cycle counters vs. the mileage is about the only way up until '16, but these can also be reset by a dealer TSB reflash/ect, so there seems to always be a way to weasel out if you need to. I have heard rumors that there might possible be an end to this and a more concrete way to deny warranty if necessary.

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Originally Posted by 96gt4.6

While we are on the topic, what about being able to check if the PCM has been reflashed for warranty issues? I know currently verifying the CVN's and checking the OBD key cycle counters vs. the mileage is about the only way up until '16, but these can also be reset by a dealer TSB reflash/ect, so there seems to always be a way to weasel out if you need to. I have heard rumors that there might possible be an end to this and a more concrete way to deny warranty if necessary.

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We won't be implementing any bypassing of these systems. If you want powertrain warranty leave your vehicle stock.

Understood Chris, and just to be clear I really wasn't asking for a way to circumvent the OEM warranty, simply asking if there was any insight as to if there was going to be a change in the ECU's to implement a more concrete way to check for the presence of a non-authorized re-flash.

Indeed, as a dealer tech anytime the ECU is modified you just tossed your powertrain warranty goodbye.

WELL THE ONLY WAY TO CIRCUMVENT THAT USING HPT, WOULD BE TO BUY A NEW PCM, MODIFY THE NEW PCM, AND KEEP THE ORIGINAL AS STOCK. sOME OF THE OTHER SOFTWARES ALLOW YOU TO MODIFY CVN'S ETC TO MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF ITS NEVER BEEN TOUCHED

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Originally Posted by Eric@HPTuners

He doesn't have much faith in the aftermarket, LOL.

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So just make the Whipple Tune readable :-)
I need it so bad ! (throttle area etc)

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Originally Posted by GHuggins

Oh, there's no doubt that given enough time and investment that it won't be cracked - Eric had Whipple's encryption cracked in just a couple of days from the time I sent him the first file - possibly even less time than that - and after all the manufacturer still has to have a way to re-flash them at the dealerships level... It's just the simple fact that Ford is going to all of the investment and time to try and make things like this harder for everyone except for the individual companies working with them like whipple and roush -

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what Whipple modified ECM are already cracked ?
Can you post the F150 file that can be read.
I've ordered a new, need tb parameters badly.

Not sure if I'm supposed to post this or not, but HPT has already cracked the Whipple encryption... As we speak HPT is making a new editor to support this - it is supposed to decrypt the tunes as they are opened... They also have to make the scanner to where it can read the pids from the new operating systems, but this is all in the works ;)

If it's the 132mm TB settings that you need - they are already posted in the main US non eco boost forum under Whipple 132mm TB...

What about Roush files on 2015+

you're not going to stop hot rodding. ever. Dodge tried, lost, Gm half ass tried, lost. Where there is a will and cubic dollars, there is a way.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 96gt4.6

While we are on the topic, what about being able to check if the PCM has been reflashed for warranty issues? I know currently verifying the CVN's and checking the OBD key cycle counters vs. the mileage is about the only way up until '16, but these can also be reset by a dealer TSB reflash/ect, so there seems to always be a way to weasel out if you need to. I have heard rumors that there might possible be an end to this and a more concrete way to deny warranty if necessary.

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what happened in '16 ??

just bought a '16 f150

thanks

I remember a GM engineer saying this back in 2014 :cool: