Can't get car to running state

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09-16-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

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Can't get car to running state

Sorry for the vague title. I am remotely experienced tuning many other platforms and have recently began exploring the copperhead world, and am new to using HP Tuners. I am currently running into a problem where the car will not continue to run after leaving initial cranking conditions. I have the following modifications on a 2013 Mustang 5.0 :

Department of Boost GT550 manifold
Shelby GT500 M122 supercharger
JLT 123mm cold air intake
MU52 13-14 Shelby injectors
Stock 2013 Coyote MAF
Stock fuel system

I initially attempted to start the car on a stock tune with only updated injector data and ran into this problem. After flashing the stock injector data back on the car I can at least get to a running condition which leads me to believe that problem is completely injector related but I could be wrong. If anyone sees anything I may be missing feel free to comment. I have tried so many things at this point I don't even know where to start so it may be better to just leave the description of my problem as this for now and see if anyone sees anything obvious I missed.

I am attaching a copy of my current settings, stock settings for comparison, a log of the car in its current state running on complete stock settings, and a log with 3 failed crank attempts. Thank you in advance.
09-16-2018
blackbolt22

Try enabling the 'torque module switch' again.... Also your battery appears to be pretty low. Stick that baby on a charger lol.

You may need to log more parameters if no one else has a good suggestion.
09-16-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

Quote:

Originally Posted by blackbolt22

Try enabling the 'torque module switch' again.... Also your battery appears to be pretty low. Stick that baby on a charger lol.

You may need to log more parameters if no one else has a good suggestion.

Thanks for your reply, i appreciate it! My battery is indeed low, been sitting for about 4 months now due to the upgrades. I’m going to get a new one or get a charger this week. I will definitely try your suggestions.

I'm sure I will need to log more parameters, I just have not gotten far enough into everything to set up the correct ones yet. I made it through the cookbook far enough to test all the settings I had in place and once I came to the realization that they did not work it seemed more logical to determine what had gone wrong up to this point rather than continue. I'd also like to state that I intend to actually contribute to the forums at some point down the road once I learn this platform. I know how deterring it can be when someone jumps on the forums with 5 posts and immediately starts posting XXX wont work what's wrong and leaves once they get help.
09-16-2018
blackbolt22

That's one thing I dislike is when people figure stuff out and they don't follow up with the solution. That said there's also A LOT of good people on this forum who do share! I'm still pretty new myself but I try to give back when I can.
I was thinking about buying the Coyote cookbook. Do you think it's worth it? I read mixed comments on it. I'm also looking for some place to learn more about Ford's automatic transmission logic/tuning. I would pay for any of it but I don't know who has it..... lol. The Coyote cookbook doesn't have much about tuning the trans eh? What does it have?
09-17-2018
Thatwhite5.0

This is the correct injevtor data...

https://performanceparts.ford.com/pa...-9593-MU52.pdf
09-17-2018
Thatwhite5.0

Here's a few things you'll need to get it started, and a little basics since your file is mainly stock.
You need to adjust your MAF Period for the 123mm MAF sensor housing. You can search for the forums to get the correct method. Multiplying by 1.65 might get you in the ball park and will be much more safe than stock MAF Cal.

Do Enable the Torque Module switch. Disable the Oscillation switch under it.

Having your traction control set to 0 will probably throw some lights on the dash. There are other ways to disable traction control, or disable the lights.

Your Idle Airflow tables and your ETC Idle Airflow Angle may need adjusted.

Disable your LTFT while you adjust your MAF. Your car may run better with them disabled and you can keep the disabled permanently.

Your cold start RPM, you have Idle Adder vs ECT and Idle Adder vs Start up ECT. Start up ECT will add 450 RPM to your base idle from the coolant temperature at start up only, then it is ignored. Idle Adder vs ECT stays adding until you've reach operating temps or the cold start is finished. At 110 degrees. You have 450 + 375 for = 825 RPM increase on 750 RPM base idle. When you're temps reach 140 degrees, 375 will be added to 750 RPM and so on.

Torque management in transmission will also need some attention and you can 0 the launch protection.
09-17-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0

Here's a few things you'll need to get it started, and a little basics since your file is mainly stock.
You need to adjust your MAF Period for the 123mm MAF sensor housing. You can search for the forums to get the correct method. Multiplying by 1.65 might get you in the ball park and will be much more safe than stock MAF Cal.

Do Enable the Torque Module switch. Disable the Oscillation switch under it.

Having your traction control set to 0 will probably throw some lights on the dash. There are other ways to disable traction control, or disable the lights.

Your Idle Airflow tables and your ETC Idle Airflow Angle may need adjusted.

Disable your LTFT while you adjust your MAF. Your car may run better with them disabled and you can keep the disabled permanently.

Your cold start RPM, you have Idle Adder vs ECT and Idle Adder vs Start up ECT. Start up ECT will add 450 RPM to your base idle from the coolant temperature at start up only, then it is ignored. Idle Adder vs ECT stays adding until you've reach operating temps or the cold start is finished. At 110 degrees. You have 450 + 375 for = 825 RPM increase on 750 RPM base idle. When you're temps reach 140 degrees, 375 will be added to 750 RPM and so on.

Torque management in transmission will also need some attention and you can 0 the launch protection.

This is extremely helpful, thank you so much, I'll get started here!
09-19-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

1 Attachment(s)

*Update* Just once again would like to say thank you for all of the helpful information. Was able to make the necessary changes to get the car to a running state and long enough to catch a log and move forward. Things are still a bit skewed but progress is being made! Still working on MAF adjustments, fuel trims, and the rest. I'll attach my most recent log which was so long due to trying to get the coolant filled properly. If anyone wants to feel free to take a peak, any and all changes/suggestions are welcome! Thanks in advance
09-20-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

Ok I have tried to use stft to dial in the maf with no success. It seems as though scaling the maf, as was instructed above due to the maf housing size being larger, allowed the car to run outside of closed loop conditions long enough to allow the o2's to kick in and begin to trim fuel. The problem I initially posted was evidentially tied to the maf being so far out that the car could not operate in open loop.

Now, I have been attempting to use stft as a rough dial in for the maf till I felt it was accurate enough to spend 30 minutes per log allowing ltft's to adjust. The problem I am currently having is that using the maf period table is having ZERO effect on stft. I tried making a histogram of stvt and maf period where I could just copy and paste the modifiers however I noticed that when I did a paste special it would literally only modify the numbers by decimals rather than whole numbers. As can be seen in the log attached to my previous post, my stft's are 30-40% off. Something told me that the maf values would need more than decimal modifications to compensate for 40% fuel being added so I attempted to manually add 30% fuel to the entire maf period table. This had zero effect on stft. I tried taking them up 200% just to see if I could get stft to swing the other way with zero changes.

I have temp compensation still on, which I know is not recommended, but I do not foresee it being the cause of this issue. Is there something else that overrides the maf signal at idle conditions that the car uses to trim fuel? As always, thank you immensely. I would still be pulling my hair out without everyone's help so far.

I guess I should also add that I tried taking the idle airflow numbers ONLY in P/N up 40% with no effect on stft there either.
09-21-2018
MRRPMBRP

Are you adjusting MAF Period, or MAF Voltage?
Must adjust Period, if MAF is digital. Older ones used voltage, newer ones use period, I'm pretty sure a 2013 will use period.
09-21-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRRPMBRP

Are you adjusting MAF Period, or MAF Voltage?
Must adjust Period, if MAF is digital. Older ones used voltage, newer ones use period, I'm pretty sure a 2013 will use period.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am using period.
09-21-2018
Bill@HPTuners

sitting for 4 months, potential gasoline issues, just one more thing to consider.
09-21-2018
OverNightPartsFromJapan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

sitting for 4 months, potential gasoline issues, just one more thing to consider.

I feel pretty confident that everything is mechanically in order. I am fairly ocd when it comes to these kind of things. Always use a torque wrench, never force things in place, use new gaskets, etc. The tank was run as close to empty as possible before parking and new gas was added last week.

The car is reacting to the maf changes but not once it goes to closed loop. I can change the maf across the board and the car will run rough or better for the first 10 seconds but once the fuel trims start cycling they seem to ignore the maf changes and go to 30 or 40% stft.
09-21-2018
MRRPMBRP

Quote:

Originally Posted by OverNightPartsFromJapan

I feel pretty confident that everything is mechanically in order. I am fairly ocd when it comes to these kind of things. Always use a torque wrench, never force things in place, use new gaskets, etc. The tank was run as close to empty as possible before parking and new gas was added last week.

The car is reacting to the maf changes but not once it goes to closed loop. I can change the maf across the board and the car will run rough or better for the first 10 seconds but once the fuel trims start cycling they seem to ignore the maf changes and go to 30 or 40% stft.

It's not ignoring it, it's making changes by that much, if it's making a 20% change, the MAF is off by 20% for example.
Log error, multiply error to the MAF table a few times, then it'll quit making so much of a change.