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I?ve been working to optimize spark timing on a 2018 Whipple mustang on true 93. The numbers I can reach before knock are quite low, and I?m even on the 4.0? pullley (~10 psi). Can anyone else post a log for a true 93 octane pull for any supercharged 2018+ 5.0 so I can see what?s going on? To be clear, no Boostane, no methanol, and no ethanol (beyond e10).
Pump gas. Probably 12 degrees
Not my tune but a friend's Edelbrock 2650 2019 manual car on a canned tune. Looks like 16 degrees up top.
Not quite, that is a very rough and wrong guesstimation.Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsmithsr
We've been able to reach 20-ish without much of a knock - you fueling need to be right, your torque model has to be spot on.
If your TM is off your LOAD is off and your fueling will never be correct. To lean or to rich it will knock even at 9 degrees...
You do realize there is approx 20hp for each 1 degree you can gain there?Quote:
Originally Posted by engineermike
Sometimes not worth the effort, customer will go cheap on fuel fills crappy 93 and engine blows up, blames the tuner...see where the peak is, back is up 1 degree...not going to break records on 93.
Part of it is how lean you run it and what cam timing you are running so hard to give generic timing numbers. Personal car you want to push a bit without having to worry much about it you could always run race gas and dial knock sensors back just enough to get some timing in it. Can't always get customers to shell out the money for that kind of thing so just have to stick with something you know is good and safe but that's what I would do if it were my own car or someone says I want to make good power safely on 93 and don't care to spend a little more time and money to get there.
20 is very high on one of these...I would love to see a detailed log of that so I can see the GDI blend and timing, cam timing, loads, and temperatures.Quote:
Originally Posted by veeefour
Lambda isn't the issue, almost certainly. It's running .82 until it enters cat protect, where it goes to .71.Quote:
Originally Posted by veeefour
Yes, I do realize 1 deg is about 20 hp, which is why I am pushing to test and optimize this.Quote:
Originally Posted by veeefour
Thank you, this is helpful. Not that you need my analysis, but it is interesting that his air load peaks around 5700 rpm, where the spark timing is 10-13 deg. Then the load starts dropping dramatically and timing increases to 16 deg. I'm guessing this is the Stage 1 that uses the stock throttle body? I know Edelbrock spins that 2650 really fast, which gives great low-end torque, but the stock TB starts choking it up top (if it's Stage 1). His 16 deg at 1.3 load and 12 deg at 1.5 is about what I can get as well, which aligns with @paulsmithjr comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by Witt
Yea there are a lot of variables. - afr. And IAT. But from what I seen safely. 12 degree. Or just add E85. And rock and roll
Pretty much spot on. Car has since been custom tuned and on e85.Quote:
Originally Posted by engineermike
I can get you a log with lambda .82 running 9 degrees and knocking, and the same car with .82 and 20 degrees and not knocking.Quote:
Originally Posted by engineermike
One will make 500 hp other over 700 - you can have perfect spark and afr but still a lot of issues if your SD or TM is off.
You are missing the point - good AFR is not enough with those cars.
@veefour I would love to look at those logs. I know that A/F isn’t all that affects knock but you referenced it in post 4 so I was addressing that.
I’m trying to draw a connection between SD and TM being off and how that affects the engine in a way that would translate to knock. For instance, would poorly calibrated Torque and SD tables result in incorrect throttle opening, cam timing, gdi blend, or fuel flow?
His full of bs ——-all talk. No proof
No way 20 degree on pump,gas And no knock. Boosted at 1.5 load
Listen to him and blow your stuff up
I get knock on 2018 stock 5.0 motor on 25 degrees plus—on pump gas
Check our FB "mr tuner", we build 20 boosted cars this year nothing blew LAMOQuote:
Originally Posted by paulsmithsr
2018 Mustang boosted, load 1.5 and 20 degrees of timing on 100 RON - perfectly doable but we back it up to 17 in final revision.
Again if you can't do it, it doesn't mean others can't...
U said pump gas. Now it race gas. Lol
Race gas? Where? You mean Q16 or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by paulsmithsr
98 and 100 RON is a pump gas here LAMO
I was really looking for logs and info on 93 (r+m)/2.
Which corresponds to 98 RONQuote:
Originally Posted by engineermike