F150 3.5 Stoich and WOT lambda issue

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06-23-2022
Terminalspeedshop

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F150 3.5 Stoich and WOT lambda issue

A little new to this forum and software, but Im having an issue on this 2020 F150 3.5 EB. Did a decent amount of research on here and other forums of what changes most are making to get more power out of their EB, I followed a combination of tune files and others comments to build a tune for my 2020 F150. With 2 goals in mind, More power while towing(modified for above 30% throttle) and more tope end power. Both have been achieved and the truck pulls hard, makes plenty of boost, no engine codes and drives great. The second thing i have been shooting for is to improve fuel economy during normal daily driving and cruising. From my experience this is done by changing the stoich value to lean out the bas AFR( with todays fuel prices, its almost a necessity) which I have done several times. When I did this I also recalculated the WOT lambda values. Stock stoich is 14.08 first i tried 14.5, then 14.8 now 15. Recalculating WOT lambda values each time. I have also in between tried returning to 14.08. but the problem i seem to be having is that the actual A/F has not changed for 1.0 lambda commanded at idle, no matter what i set the stoich at it always reads 14.0-14.3 at idle and while cruising. During WOT the commanded lambda does not match the value i have set in the WOT table under power enrich, i have tried playing with several other setting to get them to match but i am at my wits end and have had no luck locating others with same problem. I have even downloaded other tunes other users have uploaded to compare to that say they are consistently getting their commanded lambda to reach what they desire.

Worth noting...I have and always run 93 octane fuel, I have had other small modifications that i have made along the way but this is the biggest one bothering me, i have no problems where it is and could leave it alone, but the vehicle is not following the values that I inputted, this is the problem for me, I must be missing something

I am uploading my tune as well as a few logs

4p is a 4th gear pull on open road with current tune
12 was same tune but with stoich at 14.8
13 was same tune but with stoich at 14.08
06-23-2022
dhoagland

1 Attachment(s)

I'm not a Ford guy at all
I don't know how to make your Tune "Open Loop" but if you can this might be your answer...

I'm not thinking you are going to gain much doing what you're trying to do, and possibly setting yourself up for a lean condition failure.
In the LS world (non USA) there are platforms that have "lean cruise"... Maybe there is an Austrilian OS for your vehicle that supports that.

There are many tables in the background that we cant access, possibly this is what you are up against??

If you figure it out, post it up for others to learn
06-23-2022
Evo8john

The OS will target stoich no matter what that may be for the fuel you're running. The stoich value in the tune is just for the fuel volume calculations and doesn't change the actual target. For improvements in milage you're limited to shift schedule, cam timing adjustments, or ignition timing adjustments. Getting it into lock-up quicker and shifting earlier will help.
06-23-2022
Terminalspeedshop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evo8john

The OS will target stoich no matter what that may be for the fuel you're running. The stoich value in the tune is just for the fuel volume calculations and doesn't change the actual target. For improvements in milage you're limited to shift schedule, cam timing adjustments, or ignition timing adjustments. Getting it into lock-up quicker and shifting earlier will help.

OK i figured it was something in OS restricting, or a limit i was hitting that i was missing, just baffles me that changing the stoich value wont adjust A/F for lambda 1.0 commanded at idle and for cruising...but also seems like im getting overruled even when it comes to power enrich, if you reference the commanded lambda during WOT in the logs vs what i have inputted on the WOT lambda table, they do not match up
06-23-2022
Terminalspeedshop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhoagland

I'm not a Ford guy at all
I don't know how to make your Tune "Open Loop" but if you can this might be your answer...

I'm not thinking you are going to gain much doing what you're trying to do, and possibly setting yourself up for a lean condition failure.
In the LS world (non USA) there are platforms that have "lean cruise"... Maybe there is an Austrilian OS for your vehicle that supports that.

There are many tables in the background that we cant access, possibly this is what you are up against??

If you figure it out, post it up for others to learn

i did see that, but then id be commanding the same lambda at idle and wot, which wont work for my application, racecar it could
06-23-2022
dhoagland

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminalspeedshop

i did see that, but then id be commanding the same lambda at idle and wot, which wont work for my application, racecar it could

Ya
I figured it was a long shot
06-23-2022
Terminalspeedshop

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhoagland

Ya
I figured it was a long shot

I appreciate the help tho, theres a lot going on in these tunes and varies so much vehicle to vehicle with this software, i love it, more and more to learn
06-28-2022
Terminalspeedshop

Update, I was going through the logs and noticed that the fuel source was going from stoich to power enrich and jumping to manifold protect fueling, even tho i had raised the manifold protect temp to max of 2048, the vcm was enabling protect fueling and going super rich, disabled manifold protect to confirm and thats exactly what is was, there is no factory pyrometer so it must just be a calculation based on O2 catalyst temp vs ect and iat, next steps will have to be pyrometer if i desired to push it more. for now i set o2 catalyst temp to 10% over factory and will continue to monitor temps so i dont cook the turbos. But atleast i found the culprit for why the vcm wasnt using the power enrich table
06-29-2022
Evo8john

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terminalspeedshop

Update, I was going through the logs and noticed that the fuel source was going from stoich to power enrich and jumping to manifold protect fueling, even tho i had raised the manifold protect temp to max of 2048, the vcm was enabling protect fueling and going super rich, disabled manifold protect to confirm and thats exactly what is was, there is no factory pyrometer so it must just be a calculation based on O2 catalyst temp vs ect and iat, next steps will have to be pyrometer if i desired to push it more. for now i set o2 catalyst temp to 10% over factory and will continue to monitor temps so i dont cook the turbos. But atleast i found the culprit for why the vcm wasnt using the power enrich table

These values are all inferred based on a pair of tables in the next page over in the tune. I disable them both with no issues.
06-29-2022
Terminalspeedshop

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evo8john

These values are all inferred based on a pair of tables in the next page over in the tune. I disable them both with no issues.

Yes I noticed that, but worth noting is that even the highest value in the stock inferred table is 19xx, even setting the enable of protect to the max of 2048(highest parameter) it would still enable even tho I never reach the max load indicated in the inferred table?the protect still engaged?the math happening in the vcm seems to air on the side of caution is ok, I left the catalyst protect enabled to maintain some sort of protection on a truck that is still used daily and for towing, would rather not cook the turbos too soon