i tuned ve and maf seperate but when i put them together goes lean

it is a 2004 lq4 swapped into a 1970 ford crew cab with true dual exhaust and a cam i tuned the ve and maf seperatly here is the ve log from my last log for it almost perfect Attachment 121840 maf last log run Attachment 121841 maf +ve together and how it goes crazy lean Attachment 121842 and my scanner layout Attachment 121843 ve+maf tune file Attachment 121844 ve final tune file Attachment 121845 and maf final tune file Attachment 121846 this is my first car that i have tuned, by themselves the maf and ve are really good as far as i can tell it runs almost spot on the afr that is being commanded but for some reason when i put them together it goes extremely lean if you need anything else let me know. How do i go about fixing this and if anyone can explain why this is happening so i can learn from it and so it doesn't happen again that would be great thank you.

I didn't look very close
I'm guessing when you tune them individually you are open loop with wideband in bank 2?

Then when you put them back together you go back closed loop?

yes that is exactly how ive been doing it

When you say you are spot on with your AFR, are you looking at your fuel trims shown in this picture?
Cause the log this snip is from. Your MAF is about 7% rich (Its using your "boost Math" which I'm guessing is your user defined wideband transformation?)

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Originally Posted by jamesv1956

yes that is exactly how ive been doing it

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Okay
Let me get a good picture of what I see. It might not be right but its worth looking into.

So this is from your first posted log. See your AFR table showing rich.
Notice your o2 bank 2 pretty much flatlined rich, agreeing with your wideband...

I haven't tuned too much with a wideband and all mine have been straight forward, this just stood out to me.

Now I'm not sure which theory is right because I'm not sure what is causing the bank 1 o2 to "trim".
Is that an indication something is wrong with that bank because in open loop I don't think you should be triming..

But on the other side, if that is normal and you are adjusting your MAF and VE off of a bank that is pegged rich, well your probably going to be lean when going back into closed loop

Either way I think ya have something not Tune related to figure out

Keep us posted

Attachment 121852 circled is the percent error of maf table by comparing wideband to commanded here at about same time shot as yours it is showing -2.2 percent this is what i was talking about am i looking at it wrong were are you seeing the 7 % on the one you showed me i cant see that thank you for your help

i think the seven percent one is my ve log i just had that table setup and it was just going in the backround

And in your log with them tied back together, 2 seems to be bias rich.
1 trims somewhat normal

so should the 02s be occilating together

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Originally Posted by jamesv1956

so should the 02s be occilating together

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For the most part yes.
One might go low/high for a bit, then they other might. But in general they should be pretty consistent.

Here is a log of mine. You can see they are lazy at idle/low RPM but they are somewhat consistent.
Follow the log to above 2000 RPM and see they almost mirror each other

ok so i got the trims lower i added 30% to my maf table which brought my trims much closer they still need more work but its getting better im not sure if this is the right way to do it but it seems to be helping anyone have some advice to make this easier faster and more simple than thisAttachment 121860 this is after adding 30 percent to all of it i removed some up high after this so higher up i probly added 20 % and down low I probably added closer to 40% and it still could use more work but im glad it isn't 30% lean anymore

ok would having one new o2 sensor and one old one have something to do with that what is that injector tip temp that you are logging is that something a person should log when doing this what does a person do with it

Injector Tip Temp is not on GEN 3
It is pretty important on GEN 4 as its an offset in injector data (Basically an adder to deal with heat soak).

On the o2, good possibility...

Okay, Next we need to get some filters in your graphs.
For Tuning your MAF and VE you need to dial steady state conditions. Minimal Throttle movements, no coast down data, no DIFCO
Do light throttle/idle. Move into PE, Then WOT

In this log you were closed loop but seem to be still using your WB.
So I'm assuming it has its own bung and you were not putting it in place of the o2 ?

Yes it has its own bung how do you setup filters so with filters it probably makes it a lot faster and easier

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Originally Posted by jamesv1956

Yes it has its own bung how do you setup filters so with filters it probably makes it a lot faster and easier

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Filters keep your data more accurate. So that could keep you from chasing your tail.
Your discipline with your right foot does too, LOL...

I'll work on some basic filters for ya and send them back to ya. Probably be tomorrow.
You have a cable Throttle Body? Cause I see IAC maxed out indicating you need some TB Calibration. Usually not dialed in until your MAF and VE are dialed. But in this case it might be a good idea to take a look at it

It has a electronic throttle body