3.0 TDI ZF8 Calibration pre-emissions "fix" restoration

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Originally Posted by sparcplug

While a HP tuners file copy of the ZF8 pre-emissions fix transmission configuration was created, the data contained within appears to have been incomplete; omitting various torque converter configurations and settings data owing to the incomplete software and firmware revisions at the time.

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When have you tried pulling data from the car? Support indicated recent updates to improve ZF8 support. Just going off from what I was told / written

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Originally Posted by sparcplug

I've managed to alter the post-warmup shift maps for the least aggressive transmission maps via referencing the older data and the car now operates at a much lower gear, aggressively upshifting to the highest numerical gear possible.

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Perhaps I am missing something, but wouldn't flashing back (reverting) to pre-emissions map fix things permanently? Unless, of course, the maps read from and written back are incomplete and the emissions-fix is largely unaffected by whatever HPTuners system can alter

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Originally Posted by sparcplug

However, the manic high rpm warmup shifting behaviour remains and engine braking is still entirely absent so the car still largely operates in a vastly diminished capacity; an additional side effect of the changes appears to be a resistance to downshifting when attempting to accelerate.

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I will have the whole TCU/TCM reflashed to pre-emissions state and will be happy to share experience. This will be done using original VW software that was in TCU before emission fixes were applied. I am curious how that goes.

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Originally Posted by sparcplug

Coupled with the complete loss of low end torque (below 1800rpm), despite a Malone stage 2 which manifests in a dramatic surge of torque above 1800rpm, and aforementioned reluctance to downshift the car remains a shadow of it's former self.

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I do hope complete reflash does the job better. I was hoping HPtuners could do the same job by reading pre-emissions maps and bringing the car back to former glory. I guess I was misled :)

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

When have you tried pulling data from the car? Support indicated recent updates to improve ZF8 support. Just going off from what I was told / written

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I've read and written the TCM post emissions update multiple times but only read it once pre-emissions in the expectation of a complete configuration dump, which unfortunately appears to have been a partial incomplete read, almost immediately prior to the emissions recall being performed.

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

Perhaps I am missing something, but wouldn't flashing back (reverting) to pre-emissions map fix things permanently? Unless, of course, the maps read from and written back are incomplete and the emissions-fix is largely unaffected by whatever HPTuners system can alter

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A complete binary copy and restoration of the OS would have done so, however, HP tuners files are merely data tables not a bit for bit copy and at the time the initial pre-emissions read was made, entirely an incomplete set. Additionally the new OS revision had altered some of the table axis ranges, requiring manual interpolation of the older data when restoring some of the post warmup shifting behaviour.

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

I will have the whole TCU/TCM reflashed to pre-emissions state and will be happy to share experience. This will be done using original VW software that was in TCU before emission fixes were applied. I am curious how that goes.

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I'm also planning such an endeavour and would appreciate a HP dump to compare to the one I'll be generating. This appears to be the only way to properly restore all engine and transmission characteristics; engine braking, low end torque, proper warm up cycle shifting behaviour etc.

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

I do hope complete reflash does the job better. I was hoping HPtuners could do the same job by reading pre-emissions maps and bringing the car back to former glory. I guess I was misled :)

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Yeah HP tuners Audi TCM support appears incomplete, even the VCM scanner lacks the ability to display active shift map aggression.

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Originally Posted by sparcplug

Yeah HP tuners Audi TCM support appears incomplete, even the VCM scanner lacks the ability to display active shift map aggression.

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Thanks, I'll spend my money on the re-flash then back to pre-emissions state and keep HPtuners purchase on hold for the time being.

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

Thanks, I'll spend my money on the re-flash then back to pre-emissions state and keep HPtuners purchase on hold for the time being.

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Hi mmmzon,

I don't know who told you thah this was possible but it isn't. I've flashed countless of VAG module to different versions with ODIS (VAG diag tool) and the prefix sw doesn't exist anywhere. It is nowhere to be found... I've looked on VAG servers all around the globe and asked a lot of people also and nobody has it. So it isn't impossible but very unlikely. I would have done it a long time ago if that was the case.

MPVI2 only do a read of a very limited number of maps so it is impossible to restore the old software. Even with proper tool like CMD or Flex, it is not really possible since they don't read and write eeprom which is needed when changing sw version. So really the only options are to find that file named FL_8R0927158Q__1003.frf or a swap of mechatronic who hasn't been updated...

Ticket is closed since 3-4 weeks. In VCM scanner it is now possible to see the exact map currently in used with Shift ID.

@sparcplug I'd be interested in the prefix file you have so I can adjust shift points. I tried to avoid that stupid warmup phase and no success yet.

Personally, all I have is FL_8R0927158Q__1007.frf, which as far as I know is post-emission, so it does not help. I have located an individual with FL_8R0927158Q__1003.frf, and that is what I will be getting done in the near future, once the hardware to perform the flash without meddling with transmission casing itself arrives. I will let you know how it comes along and whether it does remove all the warmup nastiness ...

I was led to believe the HPTuners hardware was able to clone the whole TCU and then reflash, which is obviously (now) not the case.

By default, we only read and write the calibration section on VAG ZF8 controllers. As such we do not have the ability to "roll back" as it is, but you could copy the calibration data from the older one to the new one using the software. You would of course be missing any data for the maps we do not have listed.

If you want to revert, the older version is actually 8R0927158AM_1003 or 8R0927158AM_1004.
The thread creators was AM_1003 at the time before upgrade.

Interesting, https://parts.audiusa.com/p/52908463/8R0927158Q.html shows it fits 3.0 TDI engines but https://parts.audiusa.com/p/52908460/8R0927158AM.html shows it is only suitable for 3.0 gas engines. I also looked up original Audi EPA certification paper work for Q5 gas version (https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/displ...d=29698&flag=1) and it does show AM and not Q version TCU. I am still looking for TDI EPA paperwork

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Originally Posted by Steven@HPTuners

By default, we only read and write the calibration section on VAG ZF8 controllers. As such we do not have the ability to "roll back" as it is, but you could copy the calibration data from the older one to the new one using the software. You would of course be missing any data for the maps we do not have listed.

If you want to revert, the older version is actually 8R0927158AM_1003 or 8R0927158AM_1004.
The thread creators was AM_1003 at the time before upgrade.

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The good software is actually this one for 2014 :

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 8R0 927 158 Q HW: 0BK 927 156 AM
Component: 0BK 30 TDIUSA H16 1001
Revision: --H16---
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
VCID: 4B95B7C0E245A31C82-801E

No fault code found.


For 2015-2016:

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 8R0 927 158 Q HW: 0BK 927 156 AM
Component: 0BK 30 TDIUSA H19 1003
Revision: --H19---
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
VCID: 4B959561E2452A1270-801E

No fault code found.

yep, mine is currently on 1007 version

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 8R0 927 158 Q HW: 0BK 927 156 AM
Component: 0BK 30 TDIUSA H19 1007
Revision: --H19---
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
VCID: 4BC362722346D4E3F69-801E

No fault code found.

The rest looks identical to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Steven@HPTuners

By default, we only read and write the calibration section on VAG ZF8 controllers. As such we do not have the ability to "roll back" as it is, but you could copy the calibration data from the older one to the new one using the software. You would of course be missing any data for the maps we do not have listed.

If you want to revert, the older version is actually 8R0927158AM_1003 or 8R0927158AM_1004.
The thread creators was AM_1003 at the time before upgrade.

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Would it be possible with your help to do a complete read ? It's something a lot of us would like to do

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

Personally, all I have is FL_8R0927158Q__1007.frf, which as far as I know is post-emission, so it does not help. I have located an individual with FL_8R0927158Q__1003.frf, and that is what I will be getting done in the near future, once the hardware to perform the flash without meddling with transmission casing itself arrives. I will let you know how it comes along and whether it does remove all the warmup nastiness ...

I was led to believe the HPTuners hardware was able to clone the whole TCU and then reflash, which is obviously (now) not the case.

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Could you please share the 1003 frf with us ?

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Originally Posted by QuattroTDI

Could you please share the 1003 frf with us ?

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Once and if I manage to get a copy. At this time, I am waiting for the flashing bench to be shipped to me to get the coding restored. Once that is done, I will report back to confirm how it has come along.

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

Interesting, https://parts.audiusa.com/p/52908463/8R0927158Q.html shows it fits 3.0 TDI engines but https://parts.audiusa.com/p/52908460/8R0927158AM.html shows it is only suitable for 3.0 gas engines. I also looked up original Audi EPA certification paper work for Q5 gas version (https://iaspub.epa.gov/otaqpub/displ...d=29698&flag=1) and it does show AM and not Q version TCU. I am still looking for TDI EPA paperwork

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Here are some paperworks but it doesn't list the different sw part numbers

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...44616-9999.pdf

Curiously, some older EPA paperwork for 3.0 TDI and 2.0 TDI engines seems to be missing. I assume they were withdrawn once the whole diesel-gate struck. All gas engines are there, all the way back to early 2000.

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Originally Posted by mmmzon

I am waiting for the flashing bench to be shipped to me to get the coding restored.

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What kind of bench ? You can't flash it by OBD ? Which coding ? You can't do it with VCDS or ODIS ?

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Originally Posted by QuattroTDI

What kind of bench ? You can't flash it by OBD ? Which coding ? You can't do it with VCDS or ODIS ?

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Once it arrives, I will know the details ... for now, I am in waiting pattern. I assume if the original file was ot be had, ODIS would work just fine. I do not have a copy of it, though, so it so I am a bit limited in what I can and cannot do. I do not think you can flash anything with VCDS, at least it does not seem like an option?

I got someone from VAG who can order directly it but it is pricey... So if we are 4-5 to want it it's not that bad

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Originally Posted by QuattroTDI

I got someone from VAG who can order directly it but it would costs around $500 USD... So if we are 4-5 to want it it's not that bad

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I'd be interested for sure, depending on what conditions for such a shared purchase would be. I'll PM you ...

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Originally Posted by QuattroTDI

The good software is actually this one for 2014 :

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 8R0 927 158 Q HW: 0BK 927 156 AM
Component: 0BK 30 TDIUSA H16 1001
Revision: --H16---
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
VCID: 4B95B7C0E245A31C82-801E

No fault code found.


For 2015-2016:

Address 02: Auto Trans (J217) Labels:| 0BK-927-156.clb
Part No SW: 8R0 927 158 Q HW: 0BK 927 156 AM
Component: 0BK 30 TDIUSA H19 1003
Revision: --H19---
Coding: 000001
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_TCMAL551211 002022
ROD: EV_TCMAL551211_002_AU48.rod
VCID: 4B959561E2452A1270-801E

No fault code found.

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Correction, you're right. I thought I had a ticket from the OP but it was a different one and it was for a gas engine, my bad.
The only FRF I possess is the 1007 one myself.

As to implementing a full read/write, its something that would be nice to have long term, but we have no plans to do so at this time unfortunately.
If I recall correctly, the default bootloader only supported reading the calibration range and so we just stuck with that as it was sufficient. It's bitten me a few times where I can't get the factory file but need to do a definition...

I have all the gas FRFs, not sure why I do not have the diesel ones, but I suspect you guys are right that with the whole situation that they had with diesels they may have deleted a lot of older calibrations outright.

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Originally Posted by Steven@HPTuners

they had with diesels they may have deleted a lot of older calibrations outright.

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That is what it seems like. All the newer packs I am able to find do not have pre-diesel fix files at all, they just vanished.