The Hustle-N-Rust 1969 Mercedes 280s With Twin Turbo 5.3 LS needs your help!

The Cheapest best ECU for giving away will be Holley. The best ECU for keepsies is Haltech.

The best engine for RWD V8 swaps in the world currently is the 2005-2007 L33 5.3L All aluminum. Get one with 150k miles or 200k miles. Find one using experienced mechanic skills that has not been messed with and has a track record and all original air intake and original pcv intact. Do not rebuild it. Do not open it. Do not send to machine shop. Use the stock engine. Put the Cam TFS-30602001 and valve spring PAC1218 and do compressor math to flow desired power, update the oil pan to a sturdy trap design and relocate the oil pickup for the trap sump, make sure to use correct o-ring, replace seals and go. This engine will support 1000rwhp easily on alcohol with around less than $5000 investment to the engine if you actually tune and setup properly. Fuel system is flex E50-E80 to make that power. NGK iridium plugs never touched by human skin gapped 0.028 to 0.032" Heat range 8 and these will be compatible with E10 gasoline to 700rwhp also with headroom for error. Final timing at 18psi 600rwhp is around 10-11*btdc on gasoline. On alcohol approaching 13* by 25-28psi 1000rwhp over 4000rpm is fine. On gasoline use 10.8 to 11:1 air fuel ratio. On E85 it can 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Turbo compressor needs to flow twin 65lb/min each or single 120lb/min for 900-1000rwhp street setup. If twin turbo use high volume oil pump otherwise stock oil pump. Most important part on the engine is the air filter and pcv system. Use OEM pcv setup from Toyota Supra and use Turbo supra PCV valve from 1998-2002 Twin turbo supra. This is the big mistake everybody will make even professionals with 50 years experience do not get this part right. The PCV must draw air from behind the air filter approx 2" Hg of pressure drop on the crankcase at wide open throttle. This is the key to longevity and oil control for this engine at high output.

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Originally Posted by kingtal0n

The Cheapest best ECU for giving away will be Holley. The best ECU for keepsies is Haltech.

The best engine for RWD V8 swaps in the world currently is the 2005-2007 L33 5.3L All aluminum. Get one with 150k miles or 200k miles. Find one using experienced mechanic skills that has not been messed with and has a track record and all original air intake and original pcv intact. Do not rebuild it. Do not open it. Do not send to machine shop. Use the stock engine. Put the Cam TFS-30602001 and valve spring PAC1218 and do compressor math to flow desired power, update the oil pan to a sturdy trap design and relocate the oil pickup for the trap sump, make sure to use correct o-ring, replace seals and go. This engine will support 1000rwhp easily on alcohol with around less than $5000 investment to the engine if you actually tune and setup properly. Fuel system is flex E50-E80 to make that power. NGK iridium plugs never touched by human skin gapped 0.028 to 0.032" Heat range 8 and these will be compatible with E10 gasoline to 700rwhp also with headroom for error. Final timing at 18psi 600rwhp is around 10-11*btdc on gasoline. On alcohol approaching 13* by 25-28psi 1000rwhp over 4000rpm is fine. On gasoline use 10.8 to 11:1 air fuel ratio. On E85 it can 10.5:1 to 10.8:1. Turbo compressor needs to flow twin 65lb/min each or single 120lb/min for 900-1000rwhp street setup. If twin turbo use high volume oil pump otherwise stock oil pump. Most important part on the engine is the air filter and pcv system. Use OEM pcv setup from Toyota Supra and use Turbo supra PCV valve from 1998-2002 Twin turbo supra. This is the big mistake everybody will make even professionals with 50 years experience do not get this part right. The PCV must draw air from behind the air filter approx 2" Hg of pressure drop on the crankcase at wide open throttle. This is the key to longevity and oil control for this engine at high output.

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looks like I need to source a new motor. sounds like it's well worth it though. Just to clarify you saying to even run the original intake manifold as well or just not to open the long block? Is there a detailed forum or article i can get finer details about this?

And this is exactly why I Came here! thank you so much!

Let me do some research on this and see what I can find. Does anyone know a great tuner in California that can help tune this bad mamajama? I'm hoping to get Art Morrison to build a chassis for it. we will see. worst case scenario I will rent a garage from a buddy and build it myself. I had a fab shop before COVID. so I have everything but the fixture table which I would build a purpose-built frame jig to ensure accuracy and precision. I prefer to outsource if I can afford it. But I'm a bit away from having the budget for that at the moment. I'm also considering offering a cash option for the prize as some people won't want a racecar if they win.

any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated.

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Originally Posted by Hustle_n_Rust

Just quick to accuse me instead of asking what my intentions are!

sorry im proud of what i have built so far! i guess some people do not like to show and tell.

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Just the wrong place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hustle_n_Rust

looks like I need to source a new motor. sounds like it's well worth it though. Just to clarify you saying to even run the original intake manifold as well or just not to open the long block? Is there a detailed forum or article i can get finer details about this?

And this is exactly why I Came here! thank you so much!

Let me do some research on this and see what I can find. Does anyone know a great tuner in California that can help tune this bad mamajama? I'm hoping to get Art Morrison to build a chassis for it. we will see. worst case scenario I will rent a garage from a buddy and build it myself. I had a fab shop before COVID. so I have everything but the fixture table which I would build a purpose-built frame jig to ensure accuracy and precision. I prefer to outsource if I can afford it. But I'm a bit away from having the budget for that at the moment. I'm also considering offering a cash option for the prize as some people won't want a racecar if they win.

any thoughts would be gratefully appreciated.

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Always use OEM parts that will handle the boost. OEM Truck intake will be fine. OEM LS6 intake is strong if you don't cut out the underside like some people do. OEM parts that will pressure test to 32psi. You must pressure test the engine fully. You should measure the crankcase pressure. The problem you will face is finding somebody to tune a stock engine for minimal cylinder pressure and set it up properly as almost nobody can do it. You need an engineer capable of designing the engine components to understand stress/strain related to temperature and pressure, and a chemist to analyze the chemical chain reaction of combustion rate equation who is also a mechanic experienced in fluid mechanics/dynamics. I've never seen it done properly, not completely. On one hand you may follow my build suggestions pay for my consulting and trailer the car to me for tuning and setup. But at that point you might as well just build the engine and make a bunch of mistakes it will cost less than my service.

Truck intake? It's supposed to look good, too. This is more like it.
Attachment 139849

If you insist on going the used engine route, and you're wanting Gen 3, opt for a 2005. They have the Gen 4 rods.

well, shit boys. at that point I might as well go with an LS3 crate, right? I was quoted 8k for a 6.0 truck engine built by a reputable builder I know.

if possible I would prefer to work with someone that would like to do some cross-promoting. I don't want to have a grenade that I hand to the winner. I am a firm believer in quality over quantity.

the only reason I was planning to go with the used motor plan was because I am bootstrapping the business right now. plus I wanted to make it swappable for anyone who might blow up the engine in the future. If they know they can just pull a truck motor and swap accessories so they can get back in it and have fun. i do like the dual throttle body look. I was considering the carbon fiber berson as the car will have tons of carbon.

hopefully, when we have sponsors we will be able to get crazy crate motors for the builds but for now, i gotta get the best option I can on a budget.

Every aftermarket intake I've pressure tested on an LS engine has leaked, had fitment issues, and more difficult to work on than a factory version. And the throttle body they choose situation is awful, wrong size, wrong rate, difficult, leaking, time consuming. The people who buy and install those intakes and junk never pressure test and have no conception of velocity and momentum at low speeds so they never realize. It can lead to cylinder distribution and idle quality issues as well as high egt and egp which leads to high iat in turbo applications. It can also allow junk from the air to bypass the air filter and that is perhaps the biggest issue with leaking.

'grenade' its when the engine has been recently rebuilt. A rebuilt or crate engine have infinite possibilities for single mistakes which pull the timer pin on the grenade. I could list the mistakes here but it would be a book. People building engines very easily make a tiny mistake which limits the mileage of the engine significantly. It may be 20k 50k so the owner never finds out if they only drive the vehicle 1k per year that could be 20 years before you hit 20k. Not a big deal if you don't daily driver the vehicle. I specialize to setup daily drivers, 10k/year vehicles, so we find out pretty soon. I've never seen a forged internals rebuild engine make it past 50k miles without significant oil related and wear issues and most don't manage 20k. It is possible of course but I've done stats in the early 2000's after having several machine shop awareness spikes and determined across all platforms statistically P < 0.01 less than 1% of rebuilt forged engines will sneak past 50,000 miles.

If you don't want a grenade you must use a high mileage OEM stock engine, say 50k to 150k perhaps 200k miles already with a care record and maintained investigation, evaluated properly. I inspected 1,000 imported turbo engines from 2002 to 2012 and got really good at picking them. They can go 300k its how you assure high mileage and longevity

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingtal0n

Every aftermarket intake I've pressure tested on an LS engine has leaked, had fitment issues, and more difficult to work on than a factory version. And the throttle body they choose situation is awful, wrong size, wrong rate, difficult, leaking, time consuming. The people who buy and install those intakes and junk never pressure test and have no conception of velocity and momentum at low speeds so they never realize. It can lead to cylinder distribution and idle quality issues as well as high egt and egp which leads to high iat in turbo applications. It can also allow junk from the air to bypass the air filter and that is perhaps the biggest issue with leaking.

'grenade' its when the engine has been recently rebuilt. A rebuilt or crate engine have infinite possibilities for single mistakes which pull the timer pin on the grenade. I could list the mistakes here but it would be a book. People building engines very easily make a tiny mistake which limits the mileage of the engine significantly. It may be 20k 50k so the owner never finds out if they only drive the vehicle 1k per year that could be 20 years before you hit 20k. Not a big deal if you don't daily driver the vehicle. I specialize to setup daily drivers, 10k/year vehicles, so we find out pretty soon. I've never seen a forged internals rebuild engine make it past 50k miles without significant oil related and wear issues and most don't manage 20k. It is possible of course but I've done stats in the early 2000's after having several machine shop awareness spikes and determined across all platforms statistically P < 0.01 less than 1% of rebuilt forged engines will sneak past 50,000 miles.

If you don't want a grenade you must use a high mileage OEM stock engine, say 50k to 150k perhaps 200k miles already with a care record and maintained investigation, evaluated properly. I inspected 1,000 imported turbo engines from 2002 to 2012 and got really good at picking them. They can go 300k its how you assure high mileage and longevity

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It's funny you said this cause I have always had this tingle in the back of my mind that building a motor event just the top half is going to result in issues. you're the first person to confirm my suspicions. everywhere you look online and in person everyone is like just gap the rings do this list of top half for the most part "cheap" upgrades/replacements. I started pulling a motor apart and I got another for a trade in front of the wrecking yard so I couldn't pass the deal. I know the one I have I was planning to use as a mockup runner is a clean running motor. have no idea if it is pressure-worthy. do you sell motors you find or what's the deal? I would like to find someone I can work with who cares about the result. seems like you might be the guy. i was planning to put a few LS motors in our builds so this is just the first. I really don't want to go over 1000 HP on any giveaway car. even that is way too much for the average semi-skilled driver. i would think a cool 600hp as an average for most of the cars we will do. I know 550-600 is pretty easy to do NA.

I really appreciate your time man. most people wouldn't waste their time chatting about this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hustle_n_Rust

It's funny you said this cause I have always had this tingle in the back of my mind that building a motor event just the top half is going to result in issues. you're the first person to confirm my suspicions. everywhere you look online and in person everyone is like just gap the rings do this list of top half for the most part "cheap" upgrades/replacements. I started pulling a motor apart and I got another for a trade in front of the wrecking yard so I couldn't pass the deal. I know the one I have I was planning to use as a mockup runner is a clean running motor. have no idea if it is pressure-worthy. do you sell motors you find or what's the deal? I would like to find someone I can work with who cares about the result. seems like you might be the guy. i was planning to put a few LS motors in our builds so this is just the first. I really don't want to go over 1000 HP on any giveaway car. even that is way too much for the average semi-skilled driver. i would think a cool 600hp as an average for most of the cars we will do. I know 550-600 is pretty easy to do NA.

I really appreciate your time man. most people wouldn't waste their time chatting about this.

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I love helping and I can inspect and build wire weld tune etc... I have three shops here in Florida for these one with a dyno one for fab and one for general lift stuff. But you are very far and I am very expensive, It would be better if you ask questions and review my build thread for most of the answers these things I do for free in my spare time. You may start with these review some ideology then simply ask for the benefit of anybody


https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...river.2559833/
https://www.theturboforums.com/threa...ynojet.387535/
https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-14023348

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hustle_n_Rust

I know 550-600 is pretty easy to do NA.

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Forget about natural aspiration. Waste of time. It is not easy nor affordable and the methodology is upside down. Do not spend money on the engine. This is the big novice mistake- the engine needs to be practically free. Junk. The more you spend on the engine the less reliable it becomes. The worse economy will be. The worst the vehicle will drive overall and the more problems it will have and more bs to deal with and stress it will have. Main points of engine Stress comes from rpm and cylinder pressure and parasitic loss to make up for mis-placed energy that the natural and supercharged engines consume.

The most reliable configuration on the planet for vehicle internal combustion gasoline style engines is turbocharged. They exhibit the least stress and longest lifespans with the superior economy and reliability and most basic support requirements and ideal driving character. Of course I am talking about original turobcharged engines not the half @$$ hobbled together cheap turbo crap people build with crankcase vents and no air filter and $0.50 oversized turbos. Specifically setup: we need to copy the OEM methodology for successful high mileage examples from original turbo engines (e.g. Nissan Skyline, Silvia, Toyota Supra) and they will last just as long and become as reliable and drive the same way with torque where it should be and no dumb output shenanigans. This includes target oil temperatures and OEM quality air filtering and PCV which are essential and nobody gets it right. This is how you separate yourself from the usual junkyard garbage swap and achieve the OEM reliability from the original engine at 2x 3x 4x output figures, just like nissan/toyota does with their engines, the NA version vs turbo version.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kingtal0n

I love helping and I can inspect and build wire weld tune etc... I have three shops here in Florida for these one with a dyno one for fab and one for general lift stuff. But you are very far and I am very expensive, It would be better if you ask questions and review my build thread for most of the answers these things I do for free in my spare time. You may start with these review some ideology then simply ask for the benefit of anybody


https://www.yellowbullet.com/threads...river.2559833/
https://www.theturboforums.com/threa...ynojet.387535/
https://www.supraforums.com/threads/.../post-14023348

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I will review these threads. I don't expect anything for free if I were to hire you to provide the solutions to my builds. I have friends in Port St. Lucie and in Hollywood, FL. so I'm sure I will find something to do while I'm out there if I were to come out. That being said. if you have all that information available on these threads I'll do some research and see if my builder can follow them. worst case I will coordinate with you if you are available. It sounds like you are a busy dude and I would not want to waste your time. maybe if we run into issues I can hire you to consult and tune for us. I'll reach out when we get farther down the line.

what OEM turbo would you suggest for an LS build?

I love 2jz but for simplicity, I have decided to go LS for the next couple of builds. easy to find parts for and easy to work on for the most part. I'm sure Toyotas are as well I just haven't put any time into learning them. I do love Toyotas my first car was a 80 Toyota 4x4 and I loved it even though it was gutless. it was reliable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hustle_n_Rust

I will review these threads. I don't expect anything for free if I were to hire you to provide the solutions to my builds. I have friends in Port St. Lucie and in Hollywood, FL. so I'm sure I will find something to do while I'm out there if I were to come out. That being said. if you have all that information available on these threads I'll do some research and see if my builder can follow them. worst case I will coordinate with you if you are available. It sounds like you are a busy dude and I would not want to waste your time. maybe if we run into issues I can hire you to consult and tune for us. I'll reach out when we get farther down the line.

what OEM turbo would you suggest for an LS build?

I love 2jz but for simplicity, I have decided to go LS for the next couple of builds. easy to find parts for and easy to work on for the most part. I'm sure Toyotas are as well I just haven't put any time into learning them. I do love Toyotas my first car was a 80 Toyota 4x4 and I loved it even though it was gutless. it was reliable.

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Yes 2jz is far superior and my favorite engine. But they are difficult to find the correct non vvti JDM/USDM versions of that infamous legendary artifact. sigh

Luckily the LS 4.8/5.3/6.0L Truck engines 02-07 are modeled closely after the 2jz. Almost the same thing just V8 form. I have produced lists many times on many sites comparing the those engines.

I only use top quality products on my builds. For turbos that always means Garret or Borg Warner. Both are OEM quality and pass pressure testing which seals up the crankcase and allows low density and low radius oil droplets with OEM PCV systems. Not all turbos can do that I've found many which leak into the drain during boost such as precision, awful just terrible.

If you are asking size wise for a 5.3L stocker a single S364 borg is my preference for high mileage affordable 600rwhp. It is what I used on 5.3L , extremely satisfied comes on like a lightbulb with the right drivetrain. Here is a video of a car with the S364 and a stock 5.3L even stock exhaust manifolds and a terrible noob crossover and two mufflers. Built the 4l80e myself and the right converter though otherwise it won't perform like that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1y09lYL4Now


0:05 get on highway cruise note 16's
3:38 note 15.8 to 16.0:1 still cleaning plugs @ 65mph in traffic
5:18 kick out of lockup and small boost in 4th to move up in traffic
6:29 step down lightly into lockup for some boost in 4th
7:18 get off highway
8:23 downshift rip the tires loose at 50mph
9:12 slowing down for stoplight
9:20 Showing A/F Stopped at stoplight note 14.7 to 15.0 open loop steady
10:51 leave light, turbine whistle
11:30 cruising 15.6 to 16.0 housekeeping plugs
12:18 rip tires loose at 50mph 'spool character'
13:05 stopping for traffic light
13:10 show a/f for traffic light stop 15.5 walking into 14.7 to 15.0 open loop
13:52 2nd gear chirp coming leave light

PM me for my shops locations and contact info if you dare ;D