I'm going to try transfering the timing in the Best Torque Table to the High Octaine Table and give it a whirl to see if it has any effect on it...
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I'm going to try transfering the timing in the Best Torque Table to the High Octaine Table and give it a whirl to see if it has any effect on it...
One trick that I have been using for years is that there is a ratio between the factory high octane timing table and the mean torque table and when I work on the timing table, I transfer that ratio on a cell by cell difference to it. Works fine for me as a baseline, so when I make changes to the timing table changes, the basic changes to the other table fall in place easily enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMGT1
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To the OP:
As far as the discussion on how to tune timing, I wish a few people would put their egos aside for a moment, I left here for a LONG time not because I did not know how to tune (before leaving the tuning scene a few years ago, I was involved with tuning nearly 800 cars ranging from stock cars with no mods to 9.9 second heavily modded fieros), but because some people's egos turned them into, well, not really nice people that I simply refuse to even read their words. I don't need that kind of stupid crap in my life.
ANYWAYS.
There are a few ways that are NOT good when it comes to timing tuning, and there are a few ways that are good. Extremes in either direction are usually not the best route. Starting out at 23 degrees is no more silly than starting at 12, IMHO. Neither is even close to a good starting point.
The stock WOT max timing, if I recall correctly, is around 16-17 degrees on a 98GTP. My personal opinion is that if your engine cannot run stock timing levels then something is either pretty bad in the mechanics of the car, or the tune or you are running way too much boost for your car's supporting mods.
With that logic in mind, stock tables are good for a start, but depending on the supporting mods leave a surprising amount of room for improvement even over a 100% stock engine. However, not everyone runs around at WOT all the time and it is easily possible to run much higher numbers at cruise and lower loads. Within reason, you want to run the highest numbers your car supports from 1000-1200RPM to red line. At idle, the GTP almost demands stock levels of timing even heavily modded, for a good idle. A one step higher/more advanced and easy method for good timing table is to use the numbers from an 05 GTP, but reduce the WOT 19-20 degree numbers down to the more stock 16-17 degrees, the increase in throttle response and small increase in MPG is worth it alone. This trick, again, has been around for at least since 2005 and requires near zero knowledge (though I never advocate blindly making any change "just because"... do your home work, learn to tune YOUR car, each one is different!)
But then again, what do I know... I run a '99 GTP with supporting mods enough to run a 3.2" pulley without an intercooler and with 18-19 degrees of max timing and zero KR on 87 octane. My car still does over 255kph (according to the RCMP's radar gun last fall), still does low-mid 13's and for me most importantly, still does over 35mpg without effort on a daily basis as long as I keep it under 125kph, more if I keep it between 100-105kph. This is not to brag, it is just to point out that I am not chin-wagging without personal experience.
If you are new to tuning, it is very intimidating, but don't just twist dials to twist dials, you need a grounding in how your engine works. You also need to follow a very important tuning rule for beginners, and that is one scan, one small change. Once you get the hang of it, then you can start to incorporate multiple changes.
One thing you will find... the Intense 1.0 tune has been proven over and over to be pretty much the WORST commercially available tune out there. I know people that went back to stock PCMs and ran faster.
My method for my car has been for years to follow a certain series of steps:
1 - Address most basic issues concerning Torque Management/Torque Abuse/Injector disabling in my bin.
2 - Prepare my bin for completing a VE tune.
3 - Do a Speed Density (VE) tune via optimizing the VE table.
4 - Optimize the fuel trims via the MAF table.
5 - Look at O2 readings at WOT and address fueling issues where needed.
6 - Remove any KR and raise timing for additional throttle response, power and MPG.
7 - Address transmission settings used to set up the car to my personal preferences (this is done in 2 phases, since I have a performance mode shift button... normal mode for softer lower shift points and MPG in mind and performance mode for when I want the car oriented more for performance oriented situations).
After that I go back to juggling and tweaking fuel and timing settings because each has an effect on the other, until I am happy with the results.
Concerning VE tuning... it has been proven that some cars reference the VE table, and some do not. For example, 98 and 99 GTPs do. 2002 GTPs do not.
Even with those cars that do not reference the table but have at least a smaller pulley, will still benefit with a VE tune as for example when for whatever reason the MAF signal is lost due to being disconnected or a MAF dying on you or what ever related reason, having an optimized VE table results in superior driving characteristics if that ever happens. For those cars that do reference the VE table, optimizing it results in a smoother running car, fuel trims that are more robust in greater weather temperature variations and better MPG.
No matter what, tuning your own car can make it better. Just do it smart, no big changes and take your time. You can get a good tune in a couple hours... but I learned that to get an INCREDIBLE tune takes a lot more time and patience.