Glad it helped. I guess I am wrong on the MAP data...checked the repo and a 13 Camaro SS has zeros in offset and slope. Learn something everyday!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
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Glad it helped. I guess I am wrong on the MAP data...checked the repo and a 13 Camaro SS has zeros in offset and slope. Learn something everyday!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
Alright I finished a drive, my goal is to tame the beast as much as possible. I?m going to watch your video again, go back to closed loop and try again. I also want to do some injector tuning when I get the fueling right thanks again.
Could you tell me what you did I see you smoothed the vve down low, there is just a little throttle hangish in gear moving I?d like to knock that down a little but. Definitely trying closed loop again ur way
There is no such thing as "injector tuning". The data you see is a physical characteristic of how the injector injects fuel mass.
Unless you are talking about EOIT.
There isnt much reason to start with the rest of the drivability concerns until the airflow model(fueling) is accurate.
Yes that?s what I mean EOIT after airflow and fueling
Attachment 157440 Attachment 157441
@Cringer i think ive got the vve cl and maf cl set up correctly but im still picking up transient throttle changes and idle reading like 20%+ rich that doesnt seem right i do have ltft disabled idk if that would effect much
It's not in closed loop. Your O2 readiness is too high.
You are still in open loop. There is still disagreement between MAF and VVE, although from the short log it isn't terrible. If you want to use my style of filters for the scanner you need to add the Fuel Trim Cell PID to your channels list. Otherwise you'll need to filter on Commanded EQ Ratio instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
Transient stuff will need to be sorted out later. The foundation for Transient Fueling is steady state. So my advice is:
- Go back into Closed Loop
- Enable STFT, do not enable LTFT
- Disable COT
- Disable DFCO and CFCO
- Add the afore mentioned FTC PID to the scanner
- Get a long log (30-60 minutes)
- Drive should be be as steady state as possible, slow and easy inputs to throttle
- Try to get around 4000 RPMs in as many different gears as possible, flat road, uphill, downhill, trying to reach the exterminates of engine load and RPMs
- Don't start logging until everything is up to temp (I prefer engine oil to be 200*F myself)
- Don't worry about WOT/PE fueling yet
Your throttle hang is due to the Min Final Air being too high. This is a common mistake. People set it to the 'average' static idle airflow which prevents the ECM from removing air for an overspeed idle down condition and then the spark hits rock bottom due to the Min Final Spark table and the idle hangs or the car drives itself. According to the log idle does not seem super rich, just .98 to .99 lambda. Pretty impressive considering the SS4 cam.
Can you please name the log and the tune from which it was harvested? I have no idea what to look at or what tune to change. Help me help you. Version control! Naming conventions! Eliminate variables! Eliminate error!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
Something like:
Cringer Tune 69.hpt
Cringer Log 69.hpl
Idle Test 1.hpt
Idle Test 1.hpl
EDIT: Looking at the attached LOG it shows closed loop is active but neither tune has CL enabled. So can you please attach the corresponding tune?
my apologies i will do better Hins forth but i updated the last post with tune presently in the car thank you, i tried to do it a few days ago but got super busy. thanks again
When I was editing the post my phone glitched and deleted it, so I tried to copy it from an old browser I had opened because it was the only place that had the post.
Said post:
Attachment 157691
Attachment 157692
LOG RUN:
Attachment 157693
Above is a small run log just trying to get everything reading right before i do i long drive, the log says 20% right if i have everything set right and my wide band says .99-1 lambda ltft disabled so is the ecu already correcting the fuel or is one of my sensors not reading properly, the car seems to idle great doesnt seem rich
cringer attached are the tune you sent and the one i sent you. im not seeing the min final air i see a base final minimum on mine is that the same. also it did not do the throttle hang on the previous tune before you helped smooth it for me. do you think one of the changes u added is effecting throttle hang. i see the changes but im not making much sense of it yet but ill keep looking and learning thanks for the help.
thank you edcmat-l1 good eye i didnt see that, i set o2 readiness temp back to factory
EDIT: this is the tune im running and the one below is before changes
the current running tune
Attachment 157694
BEFORE IDLE CHANGES
Attachment 157695
did about a 30min scan after oil temp reached 200 degrees, it still seems like the vve filtering is not reading right on the histogram. should i just make the changes and see how it responds.
also the we were talking about the idle hang its in the log also ill put the log and the tunes below
30 min log run: Attachment 157873
running tune: Attachment 157874
running tune with idle changes return to before have not ran yet: Attachment 157875
What timestamp is the idle hang in the log?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
I would not attempt to correct idle issues using the adaptive changes you have in the proposed tune.
You still need to tune MAF and VVE. At lower speeds MAF is lean and VVE is rich.
ok i did a log with in and out of throttle almost all had a slight throttle hand but time stamp 8:31:35, i did some scanning it looks like the throttle returns, and the source says its idle when rpm staying elevated. but i did notice that the timing hangs for a few seconds before fully dropping off, could that be the issue with the throttle hang. i returned all idles parameters to factory except for base minimum airflow to see if anything we changed made it mad, but the throttle still hangs
Attachment 157903
this pic shows what i believe to be a cam reversion area and i believe is making it very hard to get a clean stead state log. within the blue circle area fuel goes real lean leaving from a dead stop but going down the road in that area the fueling is not far off. i tried to get power enrichment to kick on in that area, for one so the filters would not scan there and for two as a quick band aid. because in the blue area i get a lean pop but only on take-off (high load 'high throttle input', low rpm), does ok when cursing. the red circle is an area I can not safely long as when i get close it pops through the intake
Attachment 157902
this is the log that the above picture was take from
Attachment 157904
current running tune with idle parameters set to factory except min idle airflow
Attachment 157905
you said that the maf is lean and the vve is rich with the above issues and it seems like either my wide band or narrowbands are not reading properly as narrow says its rich towards idle and cruse areas and wide band says 14:5 ish. is there a way to be sure or should i just update the maf and vve table with the data and see where it goes
Thank you once again hopefully we can pin this thing down
When I say MAF is lean and VVE is rich, that does not mean in all areas. But with the small logs you have uploaded, this is what is looked like if I had to sum it up briefly. As you got larger logs that start gathering data in different operating regions you will see rich or lean in different areas.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
Typical reversion occurs at low load (aka low MAP) and low RPMs. This is an exhaust pulse returning from the collector back to the cylinder head and encroaching in the combustion chamber during overlap (some may refer to this is a natural EGR effect). The reason this happens at low RPMs is because there is not enough CFM of exhaust gasses to create a vacuum to pull gasses from the combustion chamber and keep them going in the same direction out of the tail pipe. To compound this, the other reason this happens at low load (low MAP) is because there is not enough pressure in the manifold to overcome (1) any reversion from exhaust and (2) any backflow of air when the piston comes around BDC.
So for the area you circled, I wouldn't really consider it reversion. Yes it is low RPM, but it is a high load area. Primarily I would more chalk this up to the fact that the VVE table has not been tuned, so we cannot draw any conclusions yet. But realistically, this RPM area is hard for bigger cams with lots of overlap, I would really call this big cam inefficiency/operating the cam where it was not designed/VE suffers with big cams at low RPM.
Then we haven't even touched on intake manifold runner length tuning.
Have you made any changes to MAF or VVE yet? Use the chart data and tune it.
Yes I did a little till I seen these excessive amounts show up and got a little concerned so I wanted ur opinion. I?ll probably go ahead now and try to get them dialed in as much as possible.
Also is their any way I could filter out anything thing more or less that 10/-10 on vve
And is there any way to force power enrichment in the low rpm high map areas to help the issue there some, nothing I change forces it to enable there
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
Yes, you can filter out excessive rich/lean in the scanner, as well as in my VVE Assistant tool. I wouldn't necessarily suggest that though, especially at first.
Yes you can trigger PE sooner, but you should never use PE to mask airflow modeling or fuel injector characterization problems.
You have a GPI SS4 cam, this drastically changes the engine's VE. You will be required to make big changes. You are also going to have to get comfortable with the idea of re-zoning the VVE table as well to make the data fit (after clicking the Calc Coeff button).
Edit: I have the GPI SS3 and this is my VVE.
Attachment 157912
alright im planning on doing a log run this evening and i remember seeing you said something about min spark table to stop spark from reaching rock bottom
Attachment 158008 you think i should set all low map numbers to 5 or something to start with maybe 10
I'd leave those stock unless you have a real reason to change it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93
Assuming (1) base idle advance is good, and (2) throttle and (3) spark adaptive are good, and (4) Min Final Air is NOT high, then this table should be fine.
Ok I?ll look those over again but the issue is low rpm medium to high load (like start off from stop) the spark will go into the negatives
Then you need to find out why it is going negative, and not cover it up with the Min Final Spark table. Is burst knock enabled? Are you getting actual knock? Is timing being pulled due to IAT or ECT heat? Is TCS kicking in? Is the ECM trying to warm up the cats?Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealthy93