Quote:
Originally Posted by MMGT1
Yes I am. I get a spike during the transient stage. I want to make it close, but now it seems to overshoot either way most times. I appreciate the help.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MMGT1
Yes I am. I get a spike during the transient stage. I want to make it close, but now it seems to overshoot either way most times. I appreciate the help.
Russ,
I would like to get the MAF dialed in on the race car. How do I go about doing this since I cannot take the car out and log any street miles. I am limited to my driveway and the little bit of driving time around the pits.
I may be able to get into our local track a few hours early and have free reign to cruise the return road for a few hours, but I also dont see this as being enough time.
So. How can I dial the MAF in this situation?
dyno.Quote:
Originally Posted by LNorton
Dyno is out of the equation on this one. Dont have the time to get to a dyno during the week with the right resources, and we race pretty much every weekend.
If you can get your runs in and still have a good day, use a couple of runs without "hammering" it. (Use the 1/4 to street tune it) What you are saying about getting a bit of track time I think you can get it pretty dam close!
Get to the track early a few times. I think you can incrementally tune it if you log a count of at least 100 hits on each cell in your MAF. Set your histogram to display cell count hits. Just slowly oscillate your rpm watching to make sure you hit all the cells, and that should be descent to get you started on a tune, reflash and do over. Slow process with only 100 hits per scan, but at moment your limited as you said. I'm limited in traffic at times as well and have used this method.
I put some 100 octane in my car and my knock went away. I will order a larger pulley and re gap the plugs to 0.040 and see. I will post logs soon.
OK, so as far as I can see once this process has been completed, the LTFT's and STFT's should be pretty close to zero?
I always thought that you were supposed to get your fuel trims in order before you can complete a VE tune?
I'll have to disable the open loop through the VCM editor because I have the WB wired for NB as well.
Oh, and I am having a hard time finding the Maf AFR histogram too.
Russ - first of all great guide.
Second of all I was wondering if you could quickly walk us through a drive cycle? What things are you doing and what are you trying to achieve? I'm wondering how you hit all the cells in such a short time...
Lastly, I'm having trouble getting good results. I've read and followed the directions as close as possible, but here's what I'm getting. On the first run, I'll get like average -47 across the board, and when I do a paste special / Multiply % and rescan, the numbers are now 47-50 across the board. It seems like I end up over-correcting back and forth with every scan.
I've set the CL enable temp set to 230 degrees since my WB is in the stock location and doing simulation of the NB for the PCM (and I don't want to cut wires).
Am I missing something?
Edit on last post - my WB was WAYYYY out of calibration. After calibrating it, I was able to perform the procedure and it works like a charm! Silly LC1
So just to clarify. We put the wideband in place of the stock 02 and run the wideband into the HPtuner?
If I've already got a bung welded in I should just unplug the sensor and use that right?
Yes, you can unplug the stock O2 sensor, and install the wideband into the weld bung.Quote:
Originally Posted by BEEDEEBEE
I always install the wideband in place of the stock O2 sensor when I tune a vehicle, no need to weld in a bung.
Russ Kemp
Thanks to Russ, I still have the bung that my WB came with. One less hole to rust out as far as I'm concerned! Good tip bud:worship:
Paul
Mitchell, what size pulley are you running now with the kr? The mods you have should support the 3.4Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcrusan
My scanner configuration doesn't have the MAF AFR histogram or the MAF % error histogram Russ talks about. How do I create those (i.e. what sensors, table parameters)?
Here's a link that helped me a ton.:yay:Quote:
Originally Posted by OldskoolGTP
http://gtpworldforum.yuku.com/topic/...s.html?page=-1
This is too funny… I made that post around the time the guys on my local hangout were starting to move from the DHP Tuner to the HPT.. They wanted to see what the interface looks like. I have nothing but good things to say about the HPT MPVI. I need to update that post some it some. There are way better guides out there…
I also did a write up on installing the NGK AFX via the EGR....
Just insert your brand of wideband in place of my FJO in the table display.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldskoolGTP
Russ Kemp
Thanks! This config is working, but my commanded AFR is jumping around. When I have the engine off with key on, it says it's commanding 14.00, but I have the Base AFR for PE set to 14.7. Then when I'm driving around it jumps around between 14.2 and 13.8. Could the AE modifiers be messing with my commanded AFR?
Mine has been doing that too... 13.60 sometimes. Don't know where its coming from.
That is normal, you need to set the PE enable TPS to 0%.Quote:
Originally Posted by OldskoolGTP
Russ Kemp
Quote:
Originally Posted by 00GTP
I was running a 3.4" and I jumped to a 3.6" recently.
Well, like i said, you should be able to run that 3.4 even on 91 octane. So it's time to tune that kr out but maybe you should start another thread about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcrusan
I have been fighting with tuning the fueling at part throttle for a while. I have a WB installed permanently (LC-1). I thought I was good in OL, but when I switched back to CL my trims are rich and my WB reads lean. I'm stuck there. Attached are my current scan and tune. TIA!Quote:
Originally Posted by 00GTP
If you have no exhaust leaks by the wideband, then your wideband is not reading correctly. Very common on the LC1.
Russ Kemp
Yeah, I did that already. The commanded AFR starts at 13.8 and goes up to 14.x or it can go down as low as 13.6. Can't I just keep it at 14.7 all the time? I can't get the MAF dialed in at idle speed because of this.Quote:
Thanks! This config is working, but my commanded AFR is jumping around. When I have the engine off with key on, it says it's commanding 14.00, but I have the Base AFR for PE set to 14.7. Then when I'm driving around it jumps around between 14.2 and 13.8. Could the AE modifiers be messing with my commanded AFR?
That is normal, you need to set the PE enable TPS to 0%.
Well is that a problem that can be corrected? Because I too am using an LC-1 and I don't want to be fighting a losing battle here. I can't get my car to idle below 2000RPM and I've got a good mind to believe it's because my AFR's are way off.Quote:
If you have no exhaust leaks by the wideband, then your wideband is not reading correctly. Very common on the LC1.
EDIT: I have a new problem. Since I've started tuning I've been unable to get my car to idle below 2000RPM. The only way I can get it to idle normally is if I upload the calibration I used last fall before I started changing things. The only way I can get the car to idle reasonably is to drop the MAF values to the point where my WB constantly reads 21.x. If I crank it up to where it reads between 13-15 my idle is 2000 RPM.
What is common about the LC1 not reading correctly? Is this usually due to unit failure, or installation error?Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ K
Russ,
I used this method to tune my car prior to XP cam install. Worked like a charm. Now that I have an XP cam , will I get the same results?
What are some of the hurdles you encountered when tuning a V6 with a cam?
hi Russ.
i've been struggling with lean idle. (15.7-16.5afr)
this morning i used your write up and had it dialed perfectly.
commanded 14.7, netted 14.7 with b1s1 unplugged etc after 3 adjustments.
follow the how-to to the letter, worked awesome (0-1%)
hooked o2 back up, put the system back to normal (tps/ect/pe etc etc) and im right back where i started. (maf showing +9% on average again)
all o2 sensors are brand new, even the wb sensor has less than 1hr on it,
this is my only area of issue, all other areas im catching commanded perfectly.
any suggestions where to look or point me in the right direction would be greatly helpful.
thanks
dan
BTW....your message box is full..LOL
Sounds like your wideband is inaccurate.
Russ Kemp
Or maybe a vacuum leak.
Remember, you will hit the same MAF frequencies at idle as you do in other parts of the drive (decel for example). This could cause your idle trims to be off while the trims in other parts of the MAF table are dead on.
car never left idle areas, parked in the garage for the testing/tweaking.
i'll try it again with my LM1's, when it cools down some, i know thier dead on.
thanks guys.
anybody wanna buy a dynojet with new sensor? LOL
good call Russ.
using my other wb's the write up worked flawlessly.
trimmed out to zeros and 1's.
thanks a bunch.
Since Russ mentioned following up the OL WB tuning with the "STFT+LTFT Method", I figured this would be the right thread to ask about this method.
I've tried the STFT+LTFT tuning, using info gathered from different threads on here, but never found the actual setup needed to do this. Things like setting up the PID with the best method for filtering etc. The reason I'm bringing this up, is I tried this and it threw off my already decent LTFT's.
Since I watch my trims all of the time what occured to me when seeing a +3 STFT and a +3 LTFT is that I would now be adjusting by a +6 even though it seems adjusting by the LTFT by 3% or even 1.5% would be a more accurate process that adjusting by 3-6%.
Can anyone help with the steps to doing this correctly and explain the reason why STFT+LTFT is more exacting versus tuning a learned LTFT?
I actually tried the STFT+LTFT historgram and when I was applying the information from the scan into my bin file it was throwing off my fuel trims even worse. So I went back to using the wideband to tune the idle/cruise/WOT maf and it seems to get the fuel trims much closer to 0.0 vs using that STFT+LTFT.Quote:
Originally Posted by IndeedSS
I am going to try going back to using the old LTFT vs MAF table that I was doing months ago. i think I was having better luck with that hisgram vs STFT + LTFT for tuning the mafs idle/cruse range.
Use LTFT only, and let the PCM learn the trims for at least 15-20 minutes before applying the changes (a couple key cycles helps as well). Using STFT almost has to throw off your trims once you get close. STFT is an immediate temporary fuel adjustment, whereas LTFT is a learned value over time.
Personally, I let my car learn for at least a day in most cases, but I drive my car 25 miles / 45 minutes each way to work and back home every day so getting enough drive time is never a problem. I also do not (normally) drive JUST to tune the car, I usually tune while I drive. I understand some can not do this, or have a 10 minute ride to work (F you BTW if this is you (J/K)), so this may not be a viable technique in those cases.
Yup you are right. I just sent you a PM as well if you don't mind.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie-98GTP
Since the trims were much worse using the STFT+LTFT, I'm using only the LTFT as well. My car takes about a week (300 miles) before the LTFTs settle in. I know they're done learning when I can accurately predict what the LTFT will be when I change throttle position. For my car this is about a week of driving back and forth to work (60 miles each day).
Indeed, a NB is VERY ACCURATE at 14.7:1 I think you should try using your NB's in cruise to tune your fuel using the ST/LT method. In a scan, find your switch point from cruise to PE and use the WB to tune your PE. It has worked like a charm for me. If you smooth the transition from cruise to PE manually, which I also recommend, make all adjustments + ones to blend it. When its done, should be a nice steady rising curve, no humps! I have seen tuned MAF's that are like a rocky road and it does not compute. We rise so fast making MAF a steady constant makes the most sense to me, but if the guys want to chime in, the floor is yours!
I do use my narrowband for idle and cruise. My MAF curve is very smooth. Numbers aside, the visual curve looks like a stock one. Once my LTFTs settle at 0 you can still see small changes in the STFT. This tells me using them in the tuning formula would throw off my already 0 LTFTs.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMGT1