I am wondering if intake temps are playing a role here? Are you tuning modifier tables too, or just the MAF?
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I am wondering if intake temps are playing a role here? Are you tuning modifier tables too, or just the MAF?
Intakes do play a role, especially here in the mid-west. Mornings low 50 degrees and afternoon 70+ degrees. However, I take those differences into consideration and don't tune around the extremes. Everything else being set to my satisfaction, I'm only talking about MAF table and fuel trims.Quote:
Originally Posted by MMGT1
Are you using the function string to filter out 0% TPS or the fuel cell that you are in DFCO for? Sorry, just trying to narrow why you are getting such skewed #'s.
Yes I've tried filtering by TPS and FTC. Since I'm always monitoring using dual Aeroforce gauges and the PLX WB, I can see why the STFT wouldn't make much sense to use. Even when seeing consistant and predictable 0 LTFTs, you can still watch STFT make compensating changes. Now if I were using the STFT variations by adding them to an already 0 LTFT to adjust the MAF table, then whatever that once 0 LTFT would now be off.
I guess all that really matters is that you get your LTFTs as close to zero as possible and are happy with the results.:) I just don't want anyone trying the STFT+LTFT to feel discouraged, if they are doing it correctly and not getting the expected results. In my mind there seems to be good reasons why this method may not be optimal for some.
Tuning cruise all comes down to what is delivered at entry to PE for me. If there are trims active at PE entry, it carries it all the way through your PE range. Dam V6 VCM's are a PITA!!
Do the L/STFT's not come into play using this method?Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ K
Actually - nevermind - I assume by setting the PE Enable to 0% that because PE is always enabled the Trims never come into play.
Extreemes? It is currently 10 below here, are you saying right now would be a bad time to tune my car? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by IndeedSS
P.S. I didn't realize optimal A/F ratios were all that much different with cold v.s. hot intake air.
I thought it was only for Spark.
Are you suggesting those with a "Happy knob" installed to adjust their ignition timing via a custom IAT table, that they are changing more then their spark when twisting the knob?
Fuel and airflow go hand-in-hand. There is definitely an air temperature compensation factor for airflow.
Colder air = denser air = needs more fuel for a given volume.
However I see no table related to this.
The MAF works via a heated element that is cooled by airflow. Colder air flowing over this heated element would result in a higher MAF reading right? If the volume is accounted for via the MAF, then the IAT sensor may only be used for spark tables?
Because I don't see anything in the editor related to fueling v.s. IAT, I guess either someone who reverse engineered the PCM or someone with a wideband that wants to do some experimenting could answer this.
Just because you don't see them doesn't mean there not there.
Nor does it mean that it is.
Trust me, it's there, it's just not in the tuner.
I wanted to take the time to tune my drivability today, I have set my PE enable TPS table to 0, all the adder tables, and start up tables to 0, I set the commanded AFR to 14.7 across the board, set Closed loop enable to 140*C to it never comes on.
However, as I am logging, the status bit for PE enable is not "active" even though it should be acording to my TPS enable table being set to 0, and the commanded AFR fluctuates depending on my driving, rpm, etc... even though I set it to be at 14.7 at all times.
Therefore I am not able to run a MAF error correction Histogram pid as my commanded is all over the place, I have included a log of this event and also the HPL tuner file as well.
Is there something I'm missing, or is HP Tuners not saving the PE variables I'm asking it to or ignoring them somehow.
I read here everyone is tuning their V6 cars this way, the only thing I can think of is that PE is not being enabled if the car is not going into closed loop, I realize RK's write up says to disconnect the 02 wire to go into open loop, but is setting closed loop enable to a higher temp not the same thing?
Thank you so much in advance.
Your log and tune didnt make it into your post, but read through this and you may figure out what, if anything, you missed.Quote:
Originally Posted by mourat
http://ls1tuningguide.com/tuningmanu...ons%20rev3.pdf
Never a problem tuning V8's, but no matter what I do in the TPS HOT enable Table for PE, set it to activate on 0%, it only activates at 15%, so there is prolly a min tps table somewhere that is not in HP tuners for my particular version?
Going through this as a newbie I got a couple of questions just to make sure that I've gotten this right:
I've got the Power Enrich vs Fuel Adder vs. TPS, Hot Power Enrich Enable TPS Threshhold vs RPM, Power Enrich Fuel Adder vs RPS vs Time all set to 0 in all cells
Then the Power Enrich Fuel Base vs ECT set at 14.7
After driving around it says to do this:
Copy the maf error histogram and paste into the main VE table? What is paste special multiply by % - half?Quote:
Then copy & paste the Maf error % histogram to the Maf table using paste special multiply by %. Once you get the AFR close to 14.7, then use paste special multiply by % - half
to
Doing all of this takes car of the LTFTs from what I understand. Then I set everything back to stock and the PE Enable TPS to what I want correct?
Then for the WOT tune do pretty much the same thing just for the high freqs for the maf.
How do I get the car to lock into 2nd in the VCM? \
And all of this without the stock O2 of course.
Is all/most of this correct?
I am gonna play with some of these methods on my next tune.... I am wondering if it pays to turn off learn mode once the car is dialed in?
Here's the progress so far with my setup, anybody able to give me any pointers? Just doing first step atm, no WOT yet.
LINK: Clicky
i need some help setting up a histogram for maf tuning on my 03 alero 3400, i watched the instruction video but im not sure what parameters need to be set. and im having trouble finding instructions on setting my w/b, it needs to be scanned also correct?
I am going to be attempting your open loop maf tune. If I get this right when all said and done with the tune I want to set
PE enable>delay vs. tps = zero out which it is stock
PE enable tps>hot = where I want it 20%.
The base afr vs. ect to 11.50 since I'm supercharged to be safe @ 11.7 now
Zero out the add vs. rpm table.
What about the add vs tps? Do I leave this zeroed out? Are there any pros or cons of having this and the add vs rpm zeroed? Just curious on what these changes do exactly.
THis is on a 99 GTP (s1x,48#,3.4,headers,cb)
I would leave it 0'ed out. If I find the an engine is going lean at all in the top end then you need to hook up the wide band again and make adjustments to the maf table in that region to get your desired AFR. There are tuners that use only that table to tune fuel and leave the MAF stock. I say, choose one or the other and stick with it. Having both tables interact to tune that area is a pita in my opinion. Just make dam sure that a WB is being used to adjust your MAF table in PE. Just telling the car to go to 11.5 in desired AFR wont cut it, it has to be verified with your WB. 20% TPS for PE is a might bit low too I have to say. You will bounce off 20% with minor TPS changes at highway speeds. PE that low is going to kill your NB Sensor pretty quick, and waste a lot of fuel in the long run. Try tuning PE for the area of 30-35%. Just my 2 cnts
Ok I am having some issues, I must be missing something, because when I attempt to do my maf tuning, I get nothing but 0's across the maf board.
Here is a scan, and more importantly my file being used.
Any help is appreciated!
Isaak, this might be a bit late, but it looks like you need to add the MAF freq error to the primary table in the VCM scanner.
- Open the scanner with the default imperial config
- Displays - table - primary - right click an empty spot and insert Mass Air Flow (freq error)
- Go into histogram config and select histogram 3: VE Long Term Fuel Trims
- Change the name to MAF - LTFT
- Click on Row & Col Axis
- Click on the Primary VE... under the Table header in the Primary section
- Scroll down to MAF Airflow VS Output Frequency and double click
- Open the table display
- right click an empty field and insert the engine/airflow/Mass Airflow (Hz) PID
- Save the config as whatever you like (EG: Default MAF.cfg)
I have an LC1 permanently installed, so I'm assuming I can go to the "Open & Closed Loop" tab & set the coolant temp to 284F (so that closed loop doesn't enable)
I have my PE - Fuel Base vs. ECT all set to 14.7, I noticed the "open & Closed loop" OL AFR vs. Coolant temp. Should this be set to 14.7 across the table as well???
screen shot here:
Attachment 39588
Yes, set the CL to 284*F. Set your PE richer than 14.7 (11.0 AFR boosted or 13.0 NA), and the OL table to 14.7 at operating temp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
Russ Kemp
I was initially confused by this... To clarify, I think I should leave the PE at 14.7 for doing the first part of the tune, under 4,000 RPM & under 50% TPS for the lower MAF cells; then when I move on the WOT portion, I need to set PE Richer to 11.0 for my boosted engine?Quote:
Yes, set the CL to 284*F. Set your PE richer than 14.7 (11.0 AFR boosted or 13.0 NA), and the OL table to 14.7 at operating temp.
That method was before we had the open loop tables.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
Russ Kemp
So, with the newer open loop table that we have, there is no need to tune the lower half of the MAF frequency & the upper half separately? I'm assuming that with the OL table commanding 14.7, that is good for the lower feq cells and that the PE commanded at 11.0 will protect the engine at WOT.
In summary, then, we can now tune the entire MAF range? Thanks again for your help!
You got it right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
Russ Kemp
This is like learning how to ride a bike; Thanks for being a mentor Russ! :) Before tuning, my LTFT would lock at -2.3 at WOT; now they lock at 0.0 (regular driving seems to have much better LTFT too; (the verdict is still out on the STFT though, i've heard some people ignore these??)
One other odd thing I noticed; the car seems to do better in Open Loop then closed loop :confused: The most I saw KR in OL was 0.4 or 0.5; CL has it up to 1.5. I was also able to run leaner in OL before PE would enable (better mileage) for normal driving.
Attachment 39623 (tune used in OL for MAF calibration)
Attachment 39622 (scan of above MAF calibration)
Attachment 39620 (Current tune after MAF)
Attachment 39621 (Current scan of "after MAF" tune)
Attached is the tune / scan while in OL & then the current hpt file that I'm running after the MAF tune, along with a post MAF scan.
The next goals would be to get rid of that KR & then lean things out under 2500 rpm; (no cat to worry about) Any advice on this? I'm off to go search / read / search read & then repeat...
I had it working last year, but when attempting it now, it is zero's again! I must be missing something easy!
Attachment 40066
Attachment 40067
Attachment 40068
Attachment 40069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace25
Your in open loop, and the B1S1 is stuck at 447 mv. Lower your closed loop enable temp, you have it maxed.
Russ Kemp
Because I disconnected my O2 sensor (I have a wideband installed).Quote:
Originally Posted by Russ K
is the commanded afr at idle supposed to be 13.7 because that what mine is showing even though i set the pe af vs ect tables all to 14.7
Post your current tune, you've probably missed an adder somewhere
here the current one
Fuel/Open and Closed Loop/Under Open Loop/ O/L AFR... set those to 14.7
Then right next to it, AFR Adder... 0 it out for tuning O/L
okay thanx, so there need to be changes to 6 tables. The two that you mention and the ones under PE:
Base PE A/F vs ECT, PE Delay vs TPS, PE Enable TPS, PE RPM vs Time A/F
Correct?
Yes, you got it. Just set your C/L temp to a value it will never see.... max it out. And also remember to set your EGR to max for tuning, then you can re-enable when your done. It is worth having the EGR enabled for the mileage you'll keep from it after, but that is definitely a preference thing, your choice.