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I think reducing it via the Duty Cycle correction table woud be a better choice than the MALT, but I haven't had a chance to look at your tune.
I reduced the DC Corr table to limit boost, you could cut it back more if needed. I ran these tables for a pretty flat 24 psi until the turbo got off it's curve. 3 bar sensors & stock base tune + 3 bar MAP sensor cals.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showpo...37&postcount=6
Thanks for the tip IB I’ll try it today.
I agree with IAB. Definitely doesn't hurt to ramp the MALT up to 100 and to manipulate the WG DC to curb the torque spike. Theory is to bring it on smooth so that you aren't hammering the trans. Works well with my stock clutch, so I can only imagine it would be as helpful with the auto tranny.
Just understand, if you decide to ramp the MALT, it's best to work the WG DC as well or you're going to have issues with boost fluctuating.
Here's a recent thread talking about how to ramp the MALT:
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...t=32599&page=3
I will update it later today to include what I did with my latest tables, WG DC now inclulded.
im gettin KR up to about 3 and advance in the (-)
I used this tune at the track last night and ran 8.75 @ 80 and several 8.80s. After the tune the car spun of the line on ever pass because the track had no prep. I’m hoping to pick up some more today at the races (prepped track).
Previous runs in similar hot weather netted 9.0-9.1 @ 77-78.
The car is a 2009 Solstice GXP Coupe automatic and is factory stock except for the tune.
I used information in this thread to make the tune then checked for KR. I’m sure more power can be had by working on fueling and timing up top. I believe it has all the torque management in place.
Thanks again to everyone who contributed to this thread.
I'd back the DALs down some, work on your WG DC and slowly feed her some timing. What kind of boost are you seeing? And is it steady or is it spiking and then dropping?Quote:
Originally Posted by sunny
It was getting 21 lbs and slowly bleeding down to 18 just before the 6,000 RPM shift points. Then I brought the MALT up a little quicker and set the DCC back to 100 from 5-6000 RPMs and gained a little. I was only able to get on pass and forgot to start the scanner.
Even thought that run showed a small improvement I figure holding the boost probably got worse.
I’ve been looking at the screenshots you and BYT put up in your MALT Massaging Thread. I going to reduce the DAL table and adjust MALT to BYT’s settings from that thread and see if it helps. I will also work on WG DC and timing as you suggested next Friday at fun night.
It’s running consistently now and I’m bracket racing tonight.
As the tune progresses I will post it up with track results in hope of helping others and learning myself.
Thanks for your input I truly appreciate it.
the car runs really good on this tune but i know if i can get rid of the KR it would run even betterQuote:
Originally Posted by white Z24
Ok, the tune posted above netted a best of 1.91 60’ and 8.65@80 in 85 degree humid weather. I was leaving at 2500 rpm and the DA was 2500’.
This is the tune I’m going to use this week and I will be leaving at 2000rpm. I can power brake up to 3000 so these cars have high stall converters from the factory.
I’m also including logs for the current tune and the stock tune. In the stock one disregard WB3 because it wasn’t being used.
The current tune is from today and the DA is 3500’, it is 96 degrees and humid.
Last night the tune above (day 2 last tune) produced several 8.60 1/8 mile ETs with 1.93 60’ times leaving at 2500 rpms. The DA was 3400 and it was very hot and humid. I can’t wait to see how much it improves this fall when the DA will drops to 600.
Transmission controls would be a big help because it’s shifting to 4th 30 feet before the finish line.
Can anyone tell me what other tables affect your commanded AFR? I'm seeing it lean out a little up top and wondering if I need to add fuel or if there is another table coming into play here? I've got a couple spikes as low as .86 with .88 being commanded. Do we have to add fuel just on 93 octane?
The MAF tables being off will let it drift away from the commanded AFR. Also, if your Cat Temp is getting hot enough, and your COT table isn't adjusted, it will go rich.
OK thanks, that must be it. My COT table is slightly tweaked but I'm still on stock DP.Quote:
Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW
I have a question for those of you more knowledgeable than I. I've been trying to get the idle dialed in and have been having something odd happen regardless of the changes I make.
Take a look at these logs (file name is the time stamp where the issue occurs) and let me know what you think.
I've disabled the Cat Warmup but it almost looks like it's not getting completely disabled unless I'm missing something. I have a high flow cat and Borg Warner turbo with electronic boost controller FWIW.
I may have answered my own question. Looking at this thread it seems that I have to adjust the HOM high and low tables. Never thought about that part.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=33878
can anyone explain what the tip-in load dampening enable/disable feature on the lnf does?
or maybe all of those tip-in limiting adjustments under torque management?
They were originally thought to controll the 1 solid second lagit takes for the TB to open all the way when you hit the gas, but I dont think it has complete control over it. I have noticed it a couple times but if you roll into the throttle i never notice it.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
One thing that i havnt seen since we had access to this table is the random throttle closing I sometimes see. I have only experienced it on my car though.. the car seems very consistant then out of no where only on third gear pulls the car would come alive like its never felt before for about 2000rpms, then with my foot still in it all the way the throttle just shuts completely for about half a second bpv goes off then it just rips back up again and pulls like normal. I havnt had it happpen since I disabled the tip in limiting. ?coincidence?
so like in my balt when i corner it shuts f in plate and keeps the boost and as soon as i exit and get the wheels back very close to straight she takes off like a missile. is that what this solves?Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbullet08
I dont get what your saying really, it was supposed to speed up throttle response basicallyQuote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
No, that's the ESC nanny that never sleeps, even when she says she is. Always one eye open ready to cut throttle.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
I turned ESC off completely (or so she said) and could break them loose in third in the rain and every time she closed the throttle during my test. Off road of course.
i want to slit her throat so badddd!!!! my car drifts because of her dumb ass....no joke i lose the rear tires before the front on the track or a hard corner.Quote:
Originally Posted by Iam Broke
Sounds like you have a Powell XXX bar on there. lolQuote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
a what-er? if thats some suspension part im completely stock i just custom aligned the front with a camber triangle and its perfect except for nanny no speed.
Most likely uses the wheel sensors info/signal to declare ESC. Although we don't have access to BCM functions they (wheel sensors) should still need the ABS module to think and talk to each other. Pull the main ABS module fuse and the car shouldn't be able to get stability readings and or make stability adjustments. I hate ABS anyway!!! Don't pay that little red light any mind. Plug fuse back in once a year for Inspection Sticker. Wash, Rinse, Repeat.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
Yesterday I was driving down a long spiril in a parking garage just after starting the car. Before I got to the bottom, the E-brake light came on (I checked the e-brake and it was not engaged at all), a chime sounded twice, the dash flashed "Check Brake Fluid", then flashed "Service ESC", then "Disabled ESC". I bet it was fully turned off then. I restarted the car and checked the brake fluid and everything was back to normal. Maybe you could trick the brake fluid level sensor to kill ESC completely.
or hold the traction button to turn esc off completely
Anyone wanna give some tips on helping the throttle delay? I've been trying a bunch of things to all the ETC tables and nothing has made a bit of difference.
We still do not have complete control over this. sometimes i notice it sometimes i dont. If you roll into the throttle i never see it.
Go to:
Torque mngmnt- General -Tip in limiting - load dampening - Set to Disable
Load dampening ETC limit - set all to 100
all your multiplyer tables for that set to 1.00
This is the only option we have there. You can get a little better response by raising your DAL table to get boost to come in with less pedal. But be careful with that one. You dont enter PE until about 70% throttle so its easy to see boost with no added fuel if go too high too soon. If you dont understand how that table works with other tables then i suggest you just dont mess with it.
Update, the tune in post 329 has netted an 8.42 @ 82 with a 1.85 60’, the DA was 1400’. Leaving at 2500 RPMs the car is much more consistent and I have made it to the quarterfinals or better every week. Since the tune I have moved up to 6th in pro class points standings at our local track beating many of the best racers. This is great considering I missed the first 2 points weeks.
I’m looking forward to some 8.2s when the weather cools down.
Is there a certain amount of timing you guys pull for a certain ambient temp change? I do most of my tuning at night and get my timing dialed in perfectly, then by the next afternoon I'm knocking everywhere. Anyone have some thoughts as a general rule when working the IAT/spark correction table? Say 10 degrees equals 1 degree of timing or whatever?
ok you need to adjust your timing for the day prefferably the hottest time of day if possible. colder air will allow for more timing which can throw your timing off. the iat spark correction for the most part i leave alone or zero it out to disable it in the section im running.
Most tuning should be done when its warm out. If you push the car until it knocks, I would remove more then 1-2 degrees "just in case it gets hotter the next week". Personally speaking I would remove about 3-4 degrees so the car is safe. For example if you can run 21 degrees of timing on a 90 degree day, if you set the timing to 17-18 degrees you will have a little wiggle room for when it hits 105 outside.
Doing this will lose you a small amount of horse power, but if you are not at the track why the hell does it matter lol. Using this method during hot days will be great way to ensure that your car does not knock later on down the road.
Also another thing to note. Lets say your car knocks at 22 degrees of timing, dont run 21 degrees because gas can change very easily from pump to pump. For example there are a phillips 66 gas stations that my car will knock at 15 degrees of timing, at bp I can run 17 degrees.
The point to all of this being is you need to have a decent safety zone because temps are not the only thing that change and it's much better to have a slightly slower car that runs then a fast as hell car that might not run tomorrow morning ;)
My issue is the hottest time of day also tends to be busy on the roads or I'm working. I'm confused why you guys wouldn't make better use of this table? It would make sense to me if I tune one night at 70* and pull maybe a .75* per 10 degrees added to IAT so you wouldn't have to run 15* timing at 60* ambient when 18* up top is perfectly safe at that temp? Don't mean to question you guys just trying to learn all I can.
the table adjustments arent smooth but if you get rid of it then i have found by playing the timing table safe i get a repetitive smooth timing and my runs are all identical to eachother pull after pull. that table puts a variable of change into your power some people like the table i do not because without it i can know exactly what to expect everytime i run, where if i have it enabled, one day all the sudden my car aint running so great even though the correction was not necessarily needed. i live in florida right now my day starts at 68-70* and exceeds to a burning 98* avg with like 90% humidity. the heat index every day is usually around 115*. i run perfectly fine without that table.
The IAT timing tables are some of the most powerful tables in any tuning. USE THEM!!!!!!!!! Being able to control timing in relation to intake air temps and coolant temps is vital to a good tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by jboogie67
Here's a good example... Years ago we had a Dodge motorhome. (we had it for 23 years and took over 150 trips in it btw!) Anyway, it had a built 360 in it, high compression and everything. If I had to set the ign timing to the lowest variable, which would be hot weather, pulling our trailer and driving at low altitude with not the best premium in it, the most I could run would have been 0*. (Yes, TDC!) Luckily, MSD made this handy little device that plugged into their MSD ign boxes, it was a 15* timing control. What that meant was in those hot, heavy load, low altitude conditions I could turn it back down to TDC, but on a cold day at high altitude, I would be able to run that thing at 15* all day long. (I also made my own knock sensor with a sensor and a bank of LED's. When it sensed knock, it would light up the first LED's that were yellow, lot's of knock and it would light up all the way to the red LED's. It worked pretty sweet!)
The moral of that story is without having that timing control, which was manual but highly dependent on intake air temps and density, I would have been loosing TONS of power and mpg's. 15*'s is a lot of power to loose on a built V8. These motors are no different, tune the motor in hot weather AND cold weather. See how much timing it likes in all situations and use the IAT tables to give it that. You don't have to tune for the lowest or worst situation, that's what the tables are for. FWIW, my IAT tables goes from -6* to +9* and my multiplier table goes from 0 to 1.5.
Oh and don't EVER be afraid to question, that's how we learn. I grew up in the '60's and '70's, we were told to ABSOLUTELY question authority!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jboogie67
As others have said you can use the iat tables but the difference between 15 and 18 degrees of timing is not very much. I would personally rather have a safe fast 15degree reliable car, then one that could one day possibly knock on 18 degrees because of the X factor.
Once you have blown a motor or have seen them blown time and time again because some kid wanted to push it harder then it should have been pushed that day, or have seen what happens when an intercooler pump goes out and you have 250 degree iat2s while you are still on that 18 degree timing and you go for a pull and boom before you notice it. Once you have been through all of that crap, you will realize that safety and reliability are much more important then a few extra ponies.
Last time I questioned authority i ended up in the back of a police car....Quote:
Originally Posted by gmtech16450yz
I think the numbers he gave as an example are the thing you don't like, yeah, there's not a big difference between 15 and 18 as far as engine safety. If my intake temps go to 250*, my IAT tables are gonna automatically take away about 15*. What could be safer than that? Meth dies, temps go up, timing retards. Coolant overheats, coolant temp goes up, ECT table retards timing automatically. Fan fails, same. Boost too high, temps go up, timing retards. Sitting in traffic and everything heats up, then you punch it... without IAT control you'd be punching it away from that traffic with way too much timing for the temps. With IAT control, no problem, timing will be safe until temps go back down.Quote:
Originally Posted by 06cobaltss/sc
all good advice, thanks guys. I'll for sure keep it safe though.
gmtech1450yz - all very good points. Now I would like some evidence that it actually works 100% of the time. I can PROVE that the lsj ecu will "at times" NOT pull timing, specifically at the 140 degree iat2 mark at full boost.
I am not saying it happens often, but it has and CAN happen so that the ecu does not pull timing for whatever reason. I don't know why it doesn't, but I can post logs showing specifically what I am talking about. At 139 degrees the car had the same timing as 142 degrees where I stopped, and the ecu was supposed to pull 2 degrees at 140. Meh, who knows maybe it was a fluke, but I don't have to worry about timing on e85 anyways =P
Don't get me wrong though, I use the iat2 tables on my car after 140 degrees, although I think I am going to up it because I do see 140 degree iat2's on extremely hot days, but either way that's not the point. I was just trying to reiterate that having a safe engine is something that is very important and at times gets over looked for the "more power" mind frame.
I was simply playing devils advocate back and forth. Personally, as someone who tunes there own car I use both the ect timing tables and iat2 timing tables to a certain point. However I still recommend zeroing them out until you hit your "to hot" point. When you have variables at the lower end your car is not as consistent. What doesn't normally spin the tires, might suddenly spin them one day and you get a ticket =P.
Also going back to another point I had. Gas can change pretty quickly and where I live some stations have 91 and some have 93. There is a HUGE difference between the two octane ratings when it comes to timing amounts. I mean it's absolutely insane when you are "pushing the limits" how big a 2 octane difference can make lol. So all of the "safety" tables as I call them, won't help when you are having detonation from shitty gas. Whether it was because they only had 91 or because you got "bad 93" gas, which at one point or another we all probably have =P