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Hello, I have a Whipple Stage 2 Mach 1 and I am trying to add the ghost cam. I have used the search and read the forums and have used a couple different examples to try and get the ghost cam to work. All that winds up happening is that I get weird idle behavior, with the car "hunting" between around 800 and 950 to 1000 RPM. I'm wondering if anyone can point me in the right direction and let me know what I'm doing wrong? I've attached my idle log as well as the tune. Thank you!
Cant open your file. VCT schedule is wrong and the cam angles are wrong. spark source crank? torque source target N? Strange idling here.
You have to use the beta version cos it's a 2023 MY car, that confused me a lot too. Can you explain a bit more? I'm new to tuning. I also have the base whipple file if you want me to start fresh too, i attached it.
You need to either change the optimal stability distance tables to a mapped point with overlap for idle like MP13 or change the cam angles for for the mapped point that is currently set for idle. prob mapped point 1 if i had to guess.
Ok I will log tomorrow to see what mapped point idle uses by default and then modify that and see how it behaves. Thank you, I'll let you know how it goes!
Log VCT schedule so you know you're on the right distance table at idle
Ok, I messed around with it for a bit this morning. I reverted all the way back to the "stock" Whipple calibration to start fresh. MP0 is definitely my idle map. I set that to -10,0 (Intake Valve Closing, Exhaust Valve Closing in Variable Camshaft) and i started to get some lope, but it wasn't a lot; -20,0 causes some massive idle issues (hunting between 600 and 950) and -15,0 is kind of in the middle; good chop, but still hunting. I messed with the Idle>General and Idle>RPM values but I'm not sure it's making a difference (or maybe I'm not doing it right). I also adjusted the MBT table so that between 750 and 900 RPM I am pulling the spark advance down to 20. Still getting the rough idle tho.
I attempted to log the VCT Schedule but it just shows "Unknown:FC", so that is a bust, I think.
I tried the Optimum Stability mode method, and the car refuses to go into it. I followed the guide from Rob's House on YouTube, and did the changes he said to both MP11 (as he was doing) as well as MP0 after that failed. I have left my combustion stability tables alone for now, so there are no changes there. I've attached the log from the most stable idle and also the calibration I used. Hopefully we're almost there! Thank you again!
I've spent some time on messing with ghost cam angles quite a bit and I found -20,20 were best for sound... 0,20 seemed to idle the best and have almost the best sound. All the other angles like -20,0 and -10,10 were dog shit. Try pushing out your exhaust angle. There are some phaser limits for the exhaust cams too you would need to change to match. VCT schedule saying unknown means it's not in any distance table at that current time. If OS won't work then it means they probably pushed the minimum load way out so it doesn't engage
Tried doing 0,20 and I modified 1678 VCT Exhaust Cam Phasing Limit vs. RPM vs. MCT and was able to get the exhaust cam to go to 20, but I am still having those idle surge/hunting issues. It will be fine for the split second that it gets out of "warmup" mode, but then it starts going nuts, dropping to like 500 RPM, spark advances to 40, then it hits like 900-1000 and spark cuts to 5 or so and then it drops, etc, etc. It's like it's constantly over correcting.
Also, where would I find the minimum load values to see if I can modify those and use the OS method?
1st picture and 2nd picture is how my car acts at idle and on VCT schedule Optimal stability and where I would make changes if I wanted to change idle cam angles. Start at the bottom and follow the arrows in picture 2. Also, every single Distance Table works 1 and 1 with the other mapped point table for example, emissions reduction. Now if you look back at the first picture and look through those tables for those certain distance tables you can disable and enable them with load and rpm that way. For example, in picture 3 I have Best Drivability disabled by putting all values to 2.50 load. A load my car will never reach. If you can understand how this whole system works you can do anything with your car for performance, efficiency, or sound like you're trying to do. Hope this helps.
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Yep, this is very similar to what I tried when I first started doing this. I've attached pictures of all the different tables. Trying to use OS under a load of .3 under 1k RPM, I set the distance table for OS to 1 under 850 RPM for all engine load amounts. I then set position 1 to MP1 for the OS mapped points table. I made sure I was using a IVO/EVC very close to what it's been running at w/o any changes, which was 30,0 - using MP1, I changed it from 30 to 20; to make sure that the change is being used, by looking at the desired cam angle in VCM scanner while the car is on. Finally, I set Best Drivability Min Load to 2.5 for the whole table, then for Max Load for Fuel Economy and Emissions Reduction, I set the entire tables to .1. Since the car idles at around 20% load, it should immediately ignore Best Drivability, Fuel Economy and Emissions Reduction and default to Optimal Stability - but seeing as the desired intake cam angle stays at 30 degrees after doing all this, it appears as though it is STILL being forced to use MP0 - it's like it doesn't care at all what I do outside of manually changing the IVO and EVC values. I've attached the images of all my settings that I described in case there is some kind of glaring issue that I am just not seeing.
EDIT: Added the OS distance table so you can see the mapping there too
Did you enable MP1 in the tune or was it already enabled? It's not going to go to a distance table if VCT schedule is still showing unknown. Not exactly sure what that's about but I'm pretty sure it has to do with either Driver demand or the torque model.
I enabled it in 38155 - Mapped Points Configuration. Should I only be using one that was already set to 1 (enabled)? And yes, VCT schedule is definitely still showing unknown, any ideas where else to check?
Could IMRC be causing issues by any chance, due to the Whipple? This is the IMRC table, I have not touched it.
Yes exactly. MP1 is configured for the IMRCs to be closed. Try MP15... Thats probably why its idling like shit. You may need to adjust the MAF after as well it will probably run rich or lean at first.
Okay, that makes sense! Now to figure out how to actually force it to pick a different MP...I sent an email to support asking what the "Unknown:FC" means but is there anything you can think to check? I've been combing over the settings and nothing is clicking for me
Is it in unknown FC even when starting it up? Send a screenshot of the entire VCT tab
Yes, even when I go back to the fully "base" Whipple file, it shows Unknown FC immediately on startup, even during warmup phase. Screenshot of VCT tab attached. Also attached IMRC tab
In your last log... What the hell is up with the MPs? Something seems wrong.. You may have some kind of underlying issue here.
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Been trying to figure that out myself, it's been saying that even with the base Whipple file. That file runs great though, and I get excellent performance at WOT, fuel trims and spark look fine, etc. so I figured it's something on HPT's end that's wonky. Either way I will do a full clean log w/ all possible relevant parameters enabled tomorrow and just confirm.
Could be. Have you tried opening the file in the stable version or used a different version of the scanner???
I've used both the beta and the stable versions and the data appeared the same. Will do it again tho, I have nothing but time tomorrow lol
Yeah that's really weird. I've never experienced this. Definitely seems like it's the scanner since your car seems to be running fine... Maybe someone else will chime in.
Yea fingers are crossed... I did see a thread where someone needed HPT to do something to their whipple OS file, maybe that's it. I guess I'll find out Monday lol. At least the car is drivable and all that when I just run the stock file, so it's not like I'm in a bind. I just want the damn ghost cams lol
Just wanted to give an update on this. I wound up having to use the default idle MP because I couldn't change it. What I was able to confirm tho is that MP0 is ONLY used at idle in my car - which means all I have to do is copy the specifics from a MP that I want over to it. I did this by copying the IVO/EVC from MP22 (as that was -20, 0) and then went into the MBT table and copied the data from MP22 to MP0. I set my idle to 875 in Idle>RPM for P/N (AFS and non-AFS), then set all the failsafes to 875 as well. I set Drive (AFS and non-AFS) to 925 to make it easier to take off from stopped. Now here's the kicker, I was still getting some weird idle surging, and I noticed that I was in RPM Control mode with learning enabled - but it's trying to learn on the lope, so it was going haywire (going from 500-900 RPM, cyclically). I went into the Idle>General tab and changed Enable RPM Error to 100, Disable RPM Error to 200, Minimum VSS to 0, Max Time Neutral to 0, Max RPM Error to 500. Then, went into the Idle>Torque settings and increased Idle Torque Reserve in Neutral to 20 across the board, Feedback Upper Limit to 650, Max Correction to 5, and Min Correction to -5. This is all an attempt to prevent the ECM from trying to control the idle, and letting the "car" do it itself, if that makes sense. I've attached the tune file for anyone who may be running into this same problem trying to get the cam to work, AND YOU CAN CONFIRM THAT MP0 IS ONLY USED AT IDLE. That last point is SUPER important, because you do NOT want the cams locked at -20, 0 while driving/WOT.
For those who are coming to this thread later, the car is a Manual 2023 Mach 1 with a Whipple on a 3.875 pulley and JMS fuel pump voltage booster, with a SC Foster sound tube. People rarely give their full car specs for these files, so figured I'd throw it in. If I wind up making more changes, I'll try and remember to update this thread. This was a LOT of work but I finally figured it out, lol.
Awesome info. I'm going to give this a shot sometime this weekend