Still having trouble accessing the repository. was going to add my S/C Tundra Factory Calibration and hopefully start filling in since there is so little info out on our trucks..
Any help is appreciated
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Still having trouble accessing the repository. was going to add my S/C Tundra Factory Calibration and hopefully start filling in since there is so little info out on our trucks..
Any help is appreciated
Can you attach the file here?
yes you can attach files here on our forum.
so i take this answer as the forum is going to be the new Repository??
Should i add the file into this Thread or start a new thread?
:yay::yay::yay:Attachment 95782:yay::yay::yay:
as i wait for a reply from the powers that be on this forum i am posting this factory calibration here for anyone who needs it.
Here is the Base Calibration for my 2015 Toyota Tundra Supercharged 5.7L
Okay if i can get some operation from fellow Toyota Tuners it would be greatly appreciated.
If you make any Changes to the Stock Calibration could you add them into this Thread.
When you Add it in Title the file as:
Year Tundra 5.7L your name.
Under the file put any mods and Weather during your tune
hopefully we can get a decent file thread going here.
A couple of files that may be handy for anyone messing with Tundras
2018 Tundra 5.7 Flex, Stock Tune - Attachment 96409
2018 Tundra 5.7 Flex, Tow/Haul Gear Hold - Attachment 96410
Typical channels for logging - Attachment 96408
Handy graphs for logging - Attachment 96407
The "Tow/Haul Gear Holding" file aims to hold the indicated gear when in Tow/Haul mode with the shifter in "S" - it's useful for logging and playing in mud/snow, but without a separate table for "S" it's not so useful otherwise, and I recommend more conservative throttle mapping for logging
Some notes (mostly for those totally new) since there doesn't seem to be much info out there on Tundras (please correct me if you have better information, I'm just a spare-time hobbyist):
Channels "WB EQ Ratio 1" and "WB EQ Ratio 5" are the upstream sensors, the downstream sensor channels have a "(2)" at the end
Stock WB sensors have a range from 0.81 lambda to 1.23 lambda (~11.8-18 AFR); stock PE is beyond this, COT even further so - any tuning based on EQ error needs to account for this
Commanded gears are "open for interpretation" - even with the "Gear Hold" shift schedule, the truck can (though may not) downshift to 1st at a stop and upshift to the selected gear on acceleration
Knock retard can be loosely monitored via "Knock Feedback": -3.0 or greater indicates no knock retard, below -3.0 indicates knock retard (actual Knock Correct Learn makes this trickier)
"Trans Fluid Temp" is the temp in the pan, "Trans Fluid Temp B" is the temp after the converter
A few specific notes on cam timing since it's a bit murky (again, correct my ignorance/stupidity):
The "Load" axis is Absolute Load, not Calculated Load
Intake cam timing values represent intake advance, exhaust cam timing values represent exhaust retard
For throttle positions below the "Low TPS" value, target cam timing is based on Absolute Load and RPM
For throttle positions above the "High TPS" value, target cam timing is based on the "High TPS Load" row - e.g., for a "High TPS Load" of "100%" it references the "100%" Load row, regardless of actual Absolute Load
For throttle positions between the "Low TPS" and "High TPS" values, cam timing is interpolated between the "Low TPS" and "High TPS" targets above
Based on my logs, there's a hard limit on overlap - regardless of the commanded timing, the sum of intake advance and exhaust retard won't exceed ~52 degrees
Based on my logs, if intake advance + exhaust retard > 52 degrees, intake timing takes priority and exhaust retard ~= 52 degrees - intake advance
Probably the two most common "fixes" people want that can be addressed via tune (these should be pretty obvious):
Problem: AIR pump failure limp mode
"Fix": Under "Engine -> Airflow -> Electronic Throttle -> Sec Air Fault", increase the max throttle angle for "Air Fault A" and "Air Fault B"
Problem: Truck "stalls" on obstacles in 4LO
"Fix": Under "Engine -> Airflow -> Electronic Throttle -> Fwd/Rev", increase the max throttle angle for "1st Gear 4WD Low" and "Rev Gear 4WD Low"
Thanks a Ton for this!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowNStock
Happy to help, it's frustrating not having a lot of documentation and trying to work backwards from logsQuote:
Originally Posted by nitrobrain06
Couple small things to add to my last post:
You can adjust for different tire sizes in the tune, but that won't change the speed displayed in the cluster (calculated elsewhere)
Most transmission tables are based on output shaft speed - here's a spreadsheet that may be handy transforming output shaft speed to vehicle speed/engine RPM and vice versa (yellow cells are input, green cells are calculated values): Attachment 96432
Here's my best understanding of ignition timing on Tundras:
Ignition Advance is calculated as: Final Timing = Minimum Spark + Knock Correct Learn + Knock Feedback - Knock Offset
Knock Correct Learn and Knock Feedback will be logged values (there is a PID to log just the correction, but doesn't work for me)
Knock Offset can be found under "Engine -> Spark -> Retard -> Knock Retard"
Minimum spark is determined by the least advanced of the following (all can be found under "Engine -> Spark -> Advance")
Base Spark + Exhaust Cam Spark Base
Low Octane Spark + Exhaust Cam Spark Base
High Octane Spark + Exhaust Cam Spark HO
With this, I'm able to pretty closely match timing tables to logs, but I'm not confident that this is totally correct - it makes the stock tune a bit confusing (the high advance in the LO and HO tables is never achieved, for instance)
At your own caution, the "easy" workaround is to change the all three tables at the same time (Base Spark, LO Spark, and HO Spark)
This is also helping in other ways. I'm pretty green when it comes to tuning and don't like relying on friends even though they love messing with my truck id like to learn this myself.
Dear SlowNStock,
First thing I would like to thank you for the informative posts on Tundras platform, I am enjoy reading them repeatedly.
For knock retard, I think we would need to watch both Knock feedback and Knock correct learn PIDs.
I have a query regarding supercharger application. If I need to rich the mixture at WOT to target an AFR of 11-11.5, would I need to tweak the PE table alone without looking at the MAF table? Thanks in advance.
RE: knock retard - yes, logging both is the smart choice, but you can address it with Knock Feedback alone. Knock Feedback is the easier concept to pick up (more similar to traditional KR) and generally enough to get the job done, even if it's not the complete picture - I was trying to allude to that in my earlier post, but didn't do a good job.Quote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
Some of the reasoning (which you may already know):
(1) Assuming the Learn Max value ("Engine -> Spark -> Retard -> Knock Adaptive Learning") results in total timing less-than or equal-to MBT, reaching a Knock Correct Learn Value (KCLV) equal to Learn Max is desirable
(2) Knock Correct Learn is a coarse correction, there are three zones (defined under "Engine -> Spark -> Retard -> RPM Zone") and they are independent of load - changes to KCLV impact the entire zone (highlighted below)
(3) KCLV only updates under the conditions defined under "Engine -> Spark -> Retard -> Knock Adaptive Learning -> Enable" and when Knock Feedback > Default Value + Learn Up Offset (upper threshold, increases KCLV) or < Default Value - Learn Down Offset (lower threshold, decreases KCLV)
Attachment 96503
Because our goal (1) is to maximize KCLV, and Knock Feedback below the lower threshold (3) can impact a significant portion of the map (2), we want to correct timing where Knock Feedback is below the Default Value in the corresponding Load/RPM cells (with some tolerance/filtering). In that vein, a fair shake of knock retard logging/correction can be done via Knock Feedback alone.
Knock Correct Learn, by design, is a better measure of broad impacts on timing (like octane rating) rather than specific knock retard events. That said, logging KCLV gives greater insight into certain behavior (again, so we can filter it), like learn up/down or as we encounter a zone boundary (going from a zone of with a lower KCLV to higher typically results in a brief decrease in Knock Feedback), and provides a measure of impact from a timing change (we're typically looking for a higher KCLV after pulling timing where we observe Knock Feedback below the lower threshold).
RE: Supercharger, I want to make sure I'm clear on your question - has the MAF table already been calibrated for the supercharger and you're just wanting to target a richer AFR?
If the MAF table has already been tuned, and the other fueling tables are correct, then you only need to adjust the PE table for your target AFR; if the MAF table is still stock, you'll need to adjust both the MAF and PE
Thanks a million once again @SlowNStock . Yes, you are correct. The MAF table is already calibrated for normal cruising with fuel trims within + or - 5%.
2016 Flex Fuel Tundra 2016 with LT headers and CAI.
Thanks for all the info SlowNstock! This is great info and looking forward to Learning more from you and others!
I realised that tuners change the initial value for Knock learn from 19 to 15 degrees or lower.
The default values for both Init and Max knock learn is 19.
May I ask why do we need to do so (lowering the initial value for Knock learn)?
Basically all the base files I've seen have Init at 14 or 15, which matches logs of totally stock vehicles; not to say there isn't some factory cal with a different value, definitely wouldn't surprise me outside of the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
Really you can set Init to whatever value you want, it will eventually learn to the same "final" value - it's simply that the further (above or below) your Init value is from that theoretical final value, the longer it will take to get there.
An Init value that's close to the final value means less time learning up/down.
For example, at my conditions (87 octane, ~sea level, unloaded), knock learn usually winds up in the 16.5-17 range, so I set my Init value to ~16.5, which seems to knock several minutes off of the knock learn process - no big deal if you're just driving it around, but helpful if you're logging changes back-to-back.
Thanks for the info.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowNStock
On a side note, hptuners support could not add the torque management tables currently. However after tweaking the desired throttle angle tables, trans shifts are way smoother!
I also have improved my 1\4 mile time significantly, to be accurate by 0.7 sec.
One thing I noticed is that Knock Feedback goes to zero at wot. My question is can I still advance the timing?
Attached is the log file with layout I am using. Thanks.
KFB > -3.0 is ?good?, < -3.0 is ?bad?.
So 0 KFB is > -3Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDSM
I have reached 28 degrees and still got 0 KFB. Does it mean that I can still add more advance timing?
I am surely missing something here.
One thing I noticed is that AFR went from mid 11s to high 10s at wot. Isn’t this an indication of Knock?
That's one way to work around the limitation of not being able to tune the torque management tables. You could also play with the torque based throttle limiting under "Airflow -> Electronic Throttle -> Torque Based" - you can grab the values out of one of the base calibrations as a starting point - that may also help with some of the harsh shifting under light acceleration.Quote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
Looked at your log, definitely different behavior than what I've seen, however the end effect is the same: as your Knock Feedback goes to zero, your knock learn decreases by the same amount, so Knock Learn + Knock Feedback is still the same total value. For example:
At 00:11.406, Knock Learn is 18.1, Knock Feedback is -3.0, Knock Learn + Knock Feedback is 15.1
At 00:11.626, Knock Learn is 15.0, Knock Feedback is 0.0, Knock Learn + Knock Feedback is 15.0
Knock Learn is still adapting at WOT (goes from 15.0 to 15.7 over time), and you have a few instances of Knock Feedback (ex., 00:15.786 has a Knock Feedback of -0.2), so everything is otherwise working as it should.
To answer your question on advancing the timing further: you'll need to do some more logging to see if Knock Feedback at WOT continues to learn up (setting your Learn Init higher will reduce the amount of driving you'll need to do for this) - if your Knock Learn reaches Learn Max you can bump up your timing tables. Keep in mind, even if it doesn't have knock, you don't want to target timing beyond MBT, without a dyno I'd work with the factory MBT tables ("Spark -> Advance -> MBT").
Typically, I log Knock Feedback vs Load/RPM (Attachment 96923) to try to identify if there's a problem cell - based on your log, logging Knock Learn + Knock Feedback seems like it may be a wiser choice.
That's correct, any time KFB is < -3.0 timing is being pulled either in anticipation of, or in response to, knockQuote:
Originally Posted by JustDSM
Commanded AFR dropping at WOT is typically a result of Component Protection (aka Cat Overtemp Protection or COT) - you can find the fueling tables for this under "Fuel -> Temperature Control -> EQ RatioQuote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
Thanks a lot for your generous info, very much appreciated.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowNStock
My Learn Init was at 19 degrees, I dropped it down to 15 degrees. I will put it back to 19 and work from there.
I will also disable the component protection to verify whether this has an effect on the AFR at wot after adding timing. will share some logging later.
Unfortunately no dynos for the moment. I am relaying on Dragy GPS to compare the timing intervals, my only reference at the moment.
Here's a stock read from a 2007 4.0 Single VVTi AT FJ Cruiser.
Attachment 96931
It should also be kept in mind that there are 3 "windows" for Knock Correct Learn. Each window is trimmed up/down independently of the others. Ie: you'll Likely see your 0-2900RPM KCL value higher than your 4500+ KCL value. You're probably spending a lot more time in the 0-2900 RPM window, under the Adaptive Learning conditions than you are above 4500RPM.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowNStock
So don't be surprised to see your KCL value shift at 2900 and 4500. If there's a large delta between the windows, you'll probably see some KFB activity too if your Tundras are anything like the Tacoma. So keep that in mind.
Solid advice.Quote:
To answer your question on advancing the timing further: you'll need to do some more logging to see if Knock Feedback at WOT continues to learn up (setting your Learn Init higher will reduce the amount of driving you'll need to do for this) - if your Knock Learn reaches Learn Max you can bump up your timing tables. Keep in mind, even if it doesn't have knock, you don't want to target timing beyond MBT, without a dyno I'd work with the factory MBT tables ("Spark -> Advance -> MBT").
Again, solid advice! I further that with filtering (in all cases ECT > 140deg), KCL > my Init. value and KFB > -3.0 to find where the engine is "happy". Filtering KCL < Init. value and KFB < -3.0 will show where you've got some areas that definitely need attention.Quote:
Typically, I log Knock Feedback vs Load/RPM (Attachment 96923) to try to identify if there's a problem cell - based on your log, logging Knock Learn + Knock Feedback seems like it may be a wiser choice.
The filtering can be tweaked to tailor your output for specific needs, but the above is a great snapshot.
Commanded AFR at WOT wont be affected by COT EQ Base if your Tundra is anything like the Tacoma. The COT EQ Base map is used when PE isn't enabled. Once you enter PE that map determines your WOT fueling.Quote:
That's correct, any time KFB is < -3.0 timing is being pulled either in anticipation of, or in response to, knock
Commanded AFR dropping at WOT is typically a result of Component Protection (aka Cat Overtemp Protection or COT) - you can find the fueling tables for this under "Fuel -> Temperature Control -> EQ Ratio
That's correct: KFB will briefly offset the difference if you're transitioning to a zone with higher KCL from a zone with lower KCL, provided you meet Knock Adaptive Learning Enable thresholds.Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDSM
Good suggestion on using KCL vs Init as a filterQuote:
I further that with filtering (in all cases ECT > 140deg), KCL > my Init. value and KFB > -3.0 to find where the engine is "happy". Filtering KCL < Init. value and KFB < -3.0 will show where you've got some areas that definitely need attention.
On Tundra, fueling is determined by the richest commanded fueling - even in PE, if COT is active and commands richer fueling, it will take precedent.Quote:
Commanded AFR at WOT wont be affected by COT EQ Base if your Tundra is anything like the Tacoma. The COT EQ Base map is used when PE isn't enabled. Once you enter PE that map determines your WOT fueling.
Take a look at this log - PE EQ Ratio is set to 1.20 across the board (0.83 Lambda). Even when in PE, once COT thresholds are reached, commanded AFR drops to the COT EQ Base fueling - the spark retard adder also kicks in as torque management pulls timing during shifts. Attachment 96947
I can't thank you all for this post. I build Haltech kits for all of the much older Toyota's and have done some newer motors just with a stand alone not the factory ECU. I appreciate all of the info, tune files, and log setup you have all posted. I will take some time and look them all over and see the tuning strategies in your methods. It is nice to be able to tune the factory ECU's.
Thanks again guys
Are these files for stock 5.7 or for SC?
Appreciate all the great info you guys have been sharing! It's been really helpful as I try to figure out Toyota's tuning language...it's not exactly intuitive coming over from the Chevy LS world but thanks to this thread I've been able start piecing together what direction I need to be going in. I'll share my stock 2014 Tundra 5.7 non-flex fuel tune and as I learn more of what I'm doing I'll hopefully be able to contribute some tips as well...cheers!
My initial File is a TRD S/C Calibration for a 2015 5.7lQuote:
Originally Posted by 2Noob4U
I am trying to figure out how size of injectors affect the injector constant value. I am told that stock tundras utilise 390cc injectors. So lets say that I decide to upgrade the injectors to 650cc, what is the ideal injector constant value?
In order to scale for a larger injector, you multiply the current injector constant by the ratio of the old to new injector as below:Quote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
New Injector Constant = Old Injector Constant * Old Injector Flow Rate / New Injector Flow Rate
You'll notice as you move to a larger injector, the injector constant decreases, which makes sense - a larger injector needs less time to deliver the same amount of fuel.
Keep in mind, a different injector may or may not have the same characterization data (offset, etc.); you want to make sure your seller can provide you with that data
Tundra 5,7 TRD Injector size 23250-YWF01=480cc Injector Constant=0,09838125
Lexus 5,7 Original 23250-38040=? Injector Constant=0,1316625
Counted by your example 480*0,09838125/0,1316625=358,6670464сс
Have someone precise information on the injector.
Toyota's manual for 3UR equipped vehicles spec a range of 83-99 cc per 15 seconds (332 cc/min to 396 cc/min) - the center of that range would be 364 cc/min, nearly equivalent to the ~360 cc/min per your above calculation.Quote:
Originally Posted by ayashiko
Because it's not totally clear what the Injector Constant is relative to, I went and did some logging to back out the logic; here's my current best model:
Injector Pulse Width = 10 * Cylinder Airmass * Stoich AFR * Injector Constant
Note that this calculated Pulse Width does not account for any corrections (Injector Offset, Load Mult, fuel trims, PE, etc.).
To estimate a totally unknown injector constant, you can use a formula for fuel mass:
Cylinder Airmass / Stoich AFR = Injector Pulse Width * Injector Flow Rate
Rearranging terms:
Injector Pulse Width = Cylinder Airmass / (Injector Flow Rate * Stoich AFR)
Substituting into our earlier equation:
Cylinder Airmass / (Injector Flow Rate * Stoich AFR) = 10 * Cylinder Airmass * Stoich AFR * Injector Constant
A little more algebra with the above terms, we finally arrive at:
Injector Constant = 1 / (10 * Injector Flow Rate * (Stoich AFR)^2)
Using our earlier figures for injector sizes, the injector constants calculated are ~17% too low relative to the stock values, so multiplying the calculated Injector Constant by 1.20 would arrive at a reasonable baseline (fathoming a guess, the error may be due to other corrections baked into the Injector Constant).
Whenever possible, I would scale injector constants rather than try to calculate new ones.
If anyone has better info or corrections, please share.
i have upgraded the injectors to 650cc and reduced the injector constant value to 0.063.
Fuel pump pressure is set at 60psi.
The truck idle at 20% lean. I have tried scaling the MAF without luck. This is frustrating :rant:
Could someone have a look at the attached tune file and let me know where I have gone wrong? Thanks in advance
Your injector constant looks about right for injector size and pressure, may need a little more fine tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
Injector offset ("Engine -> Fuel -> General -> Offset vs. Volts") and load multiplier ("Engine -> Fuel -> General -> Load Mult") need to be addressed - injector offset is the big factor in play at idle.
As a starting point, in the attached file I've dropped in the high pressure offset and load mult from a FFV Tundra (and set your MAF correction back to 1.00) - your seller should be able to provide you with offset data for your exact injector, the attached is just a holdover to help move things in the right direction.
Attachment 97301
Found the offset data here:Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowNStock
https://www.deatschwerks.com/sites/w...%20Summary.pdf
The truck runs great at 9.5 Psi of boost targeting mid 11s AFR. Got to thank my mate who took me through all of the steps indeed. We kept the spark advance at 12*. I am sure that we still have 30-50 HP give or take hidden ��. Thanks once again @SlowNStock
@SlowNStock and rest,
Been trying to tune a 2016 FFV supercharged Tundra. We managed to get it almost tuned, but the truck shifts like crap specifically 2-3 shift. I am trying to force shifting at 5800 RPM, now it shifts at 6100 RPM. Also is there a way to remove rev limit or allow fuel cutout?
Attached is a log with various loads. Could you please let me know what to try in order to change shifting points?
Thanks.
Increasing the rev limit is straightforward, it's under "Engine -> Fuel -> Cutoff, DFCO", just increase to the value you'd like. Don't go crazy on the stock valvetrain...Quote:
Originally Posted by korbiams
As far as the 2-3 shift - couple things to be done.
Per your attached file, I see you've dropped your 2-3 shift in Normal and Tow/Haul, you should also drop those corresponding values in the "Cold" and "Fault" tables as well.
If the truck still shifts too high, multiply by the ratio of target/actual. In this case, with a target shift of 5800 and an actual shift of 6100, you have a ratio of 5800/6100 or ~0.95, multiply your WOT shifts by this figure, and smooth into the remaining as you see fit.
I've made those hypothetical changes in the attached as an example - rev limit is raised to 6400, WOT shift points dropped by 5%, and the resulting shift scheduling copied over to the "Cold" and "Fault" tables.
Example file: Attachment 97869
A word on your log - you'll want to pare down the channels for the specific task at hand, having the whole kit and caboodle is fine to take a high-level look, but for something like this the net polling interval is a bit slow to get an accurate picture (I realize that's probably my fault for not putting more explanation in my earlier posts). Here's an example of a smaller set of channels with better polling intervals, if you do a log with both you should notice the difference right away (you may need to fine tune polling intervals further): Attachment 97871