Help me Understand EGR tunning map

Hi everyone i'm from Australia and want to tune EGR map for a Ford Ranger 2018 PX2 3.2L 5 Cylinder Diesel engine.....my question is can the HP tuner software lower all EGR parameters so the EGR never opens up ? or is HP tuners not supplying this map due to EPA regulation banning them from giving us this option to tune this map so we don't mess with the emissions ?

also when tuning with the EGR off how would i go about tuning with the fuel correction ? when EGR is on and working/activated.... less clean fresh air is entering the cylinders so from what i know more fuel will need to be added by the manufacture to make more power due to Hot less fresh air entering cylinders killing performance.

so do i just pull fuel out of the fuel tables or do i have to add even more fuel ?

please correct me if i em wrong.

No need to add more fuel. Hard to explain on here but they aren?t that dependant on air fuel ratios. Still don?t want to go under 18-19:1

EGR does nothing more than "take space" and lower the displacement of the motor thereby reducing the heat generated, it also reduces this heat by having a lower temperature relative to the combustion process that will absorb heat. Lowering the temperature is needed to reduce NOx. NOx is formed when combustion temperature go above 2500F

Air is 78% nitrogen 21% oxygen and a little bit of other gases. Diesel engines restrict fuel amount to control engine RPM, thus they move as much air as they typically can at all times. There is a throttle body but it's used for prioritizing EGR flow over outside air flow into the cylinders, and for smooth engine shut downs to reduce things like belt chirp. This style of rev control by fuel amount typically results in an abundance of available nitrogen and oxygen molecules relative to the combusted oxygen or AFR. Meaning during and after combustion there will be excess oxygen and nitrogen in the cylinder ripe for NOx and other emission production. Recirculating the exhaust gas means we are replacing that available cylinder volume with previously made NOx, CO2, CO, and other gases which won't react a second time when being present during the combustion process. This reduces NOx and other emission production. Increasing EGR flow means there will be less available oxygen and thus less fuel will be required to maintain the same AFR.

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Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching

Air is 78% nitrogen 21% oxygen and a little bit of other gases. Diesel engines restrict fuel amount to control engine RPM, thus they move as much air as they typically can at all times. There is a throttle body but it's used for prioritizing EGR flow over outside air flow into the cylinders, and for smooth engine shut downs to reduce things like belt chirp. This style of rev control by fuel amount typically results in an abundance of available nitrogen and oxygen molecules relative to the combusted oxygen or AFR. Meaning during and after combustion there will be excess oxygen and nitrogen in the cylinder ripe for NOx and other emission production. Recirculating the exhaust gas means we are replacing that available cylinder volume with previously made NOx, CO2, CO, and other gases which won't react a second time when being present during the combustion process. This reduces NOx and other emission production. Increasing EGR flow means there will be less available oxygen and thus less fuel will be required to maintain the same AFR.

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Ok thanks heaps for explaining this...I'm starting to see the logic now.

Increase in Egr flow = less air oxygen Thus = needing less fuel
No Egr flow(EGR disabled) = more air oxygen Thus = needing more fuel to utilize more Hp benifites on partial throttle ?

I get you don't HAVE TO add more fuel when disabling EGR completely.....HOWEVER since there is slightly more air density i could add more fuel to maximize slightly hp potential with EGR disabled?

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Originally Posted by Aus_spec_ranger

Ok thanks heaps for explaining this...I'm starting to see the logic now.

Increase in Egr flow = less air oxygen Thus = needing less fuel
No Egr flow(EGR disabled) = more air oxygen Thus = needing more fuel to utilize more Hp benifites on partial throttle ?

I get you don't HAVE TO add more fuel when disabling EGR completely.....HOWEVER since there is slightly more air density i could add more fuel to maximize slightly hp potential with EGR disabled?

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More air means more fuel to maintain afr, which typically equates to more power. So yeah more power is theoretically achievable when more air is available. You're also right if you have an 80-1AFR and you make it 90-1 with more air instead of egr, without adding any fuel you will make close to the same power as you're burning the same total amount of oxygen even with an leaner AFR. Usually in high afr ranges the increase in emissions is negligible as high AFR conditions only occur in low fuel amount and cylinder pressure ranges like idle and light throttle. When we start asking for power we start using that available air and so we also have higher cylinder pressures and combustion temps which increase their production. It's a balancing act. But remember if you increase fuel amount entering the cylinder there will be a slightly longer autoignition delay increase as more heat has been absorbed by the higher fuel volume entering the cylinder thus dropping the cylinder temp. This is where timing increases take place to give appropriate time for the fuel to heat up and combust. Sometimes it's not needed and other times pilot mass and timing increases can be all you need in high AFR scenarios to have higher starting cylinder temps which negate the higher fuel amount heat absorption. But for all out power and being on the line of burning all the available oxygen, by adding pilot you will take away available oxygen from the main event, this can sometimes hurt overall power. There is so much to know and learn about this but in stock form usually you have some extra air cushion available for fuel increase and MOOH POWAH! lol! Play around and see what nets you the best result, as every engine is a little different and diesel tuning is very subjective.

JaegerWrenching "This is where timing increases take place to give appropriate time for the fuel to heat up and combust. Sometimes it's not needed and other times pilot mass and timing increases can be all you need in high AFR scenarios to have higher starting cylinder temps which negate the higher fuel amount heat absorption"

This is the sort of information i need to know and dont know what book to read or where to get diesel volumetric air fuel efficiency understanding. I was blown away on how lean u can run a diesel

Gas engine light throttle = 13-17Afrs
Gas engine WOT = 11-12.5 Afrs
Diesle engines with my understanding in AFR'S
diesle engine light throttle = 21-60Afrs ? ( Maybe even more??)
Diesle engines WOT = 15.5-19 Afrs ? ( Dont go ritcher then 15.5 or higher egt and more smoke with only small amount in HP?)

When tuning Diesels, basically forget the AFR. It?s not petrol and is tuned way different.

Only need to make sure at full throttle it doesnt go under 18:1

To keep the valve closed change the open tables to 2048 on all 3 and close tables to 0 on all 3 dont change the regen tables have found this does add some boost between gear changes as the EGR appears to act like a blow off valve to reduce and smooth the boost curve preferably I like to leave it stock

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Originally Posted by Natedogg1986

When tuning Diesels, basically forget the AFR. It?s not petrol and is tuned way different.

Only need to make sure at full throttle it doesnt go under 18:1

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I go under 18.0 all the time, unless you're going for 0 smoke production and like the stock/slow throttle response there's a descent amount to be had! Especially if timing is set appropriate for the fuel there isn't a real noticeable smoke increase for the power. I see a lot of gale banks regurgitation on forums now a days, unfortunately he doesn't tell you his approach to tuning is no wasted fuel aka some smoke = bad. But if no smoke production was actually achievable then every stock truck wouldn't require a DPF..... He also doesn't mention in his videos that you will actually make more power but at the cost of wasting some fuel as smoke. If you have the airflow to maintain you desired power with an 18.0AFR awesome do it! I have had decent gains on trucks that start to haze have add some more and they pick up more. Gas cars go under 1.0 lambda all the time in factory calibrations.... but they don't produce the smoke like a diesel does so there for it's "acceptable". Still wasting fuel but just not visible to the human eyeball. It's worth a try to see where you engine is happy and learn some things along the way instead of setting an imaginary boundary.

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Originally Posted by 9inty9er

To keep the valve closed change the open tables to 2048 on all 3 and close tables to 0 on all 3 dont change the regen tables have found this does add some boost between gear changes as the EGR appears to act like a blow off valve to reduce and smooth the boost curve preferably I like to leave it stock

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awsome thanks heaps....but there is a regen table for the EGR ? isn't the regen table for a DPF burn cycle ?

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Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching

I go under 18.0 all the time, unless you're going for 0 smoke production and like the stock/slow throttle response there's a descent amount to be had! Especially if timing is set appropriate for the fuel there isn't a real noticeable smoke increase for the power. I see a lot of gale banks regurgitation on forums now a days, unfortunately he doesn't tell you his approach to tuning is no wasted fuel aka some smoke = bad. But if no smoke production was actually achievable then every stock truck wouldn't require a DPF..... He also doesn't mention in his videos that you will actually make more power but at the cost of wasting some fuel as smoke. If you have the airflow to maintain you desired power with an 18.0AFR awesome do it! I have had decent gains on trucks that start to haze have add some more and they pick up more. Gas cars go under 1.0 lambda all the time in factory calibrations.... but they don't produce the smoke like a diesel does so there for it's "acceptable". Still wasting fuel but just not visible to the human eyeball. It's worth a try to see where you engine is happy and learn some things along the way instead of setting an imaginary boundary.

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Some people just cant be helped. There is no imagination about it, under 18:1 and the EGT is the issue for sustained operations. Smoke is not the issue. But if you keep going along those lines going under 18:1 leads to DPF getting full faster than it should.

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Originally Posted by Natedogg1986

Some people just cant be helped. There is no imagination about it, under 18:1 and the EGT is the issue for sustained operations. Smoke is not the issue. But if you keep going along those lines going under 18:1 leads to DPF getting full faster than it should.

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Nate It's okay to have a difference of opinion and have dialog back and forth on a topic you're passionate about without getting upset! If you're wanting to say a few sentences and leave thinking I or someone else won't add to it or question it you're wrong! I want people to question me! I'm also wrong all the time and I have posts on this forum where i've said things that are wrong.... I could easily edit them away but i choose not to because i want others to learn from my mistakes and see my own learning pains over the years. That said I don't think this is a right or wrong topic but more so a tuning preference... These trucks will hit EGT limitations with a stock tune during sustained WOT pulls...... so does that mean the stock calibrators screwed up according to you? I also never said to remove EGT limiting therefore sustained heat isn't an issue.... you'll just eclipse the egt limiter sooner. What if their truck has a high flow dpf? What do they primarily use their truck for? Did they re-scale the maf correctly for their new aftermarket intake so airflow is calculated properly? Did they alter the injector PW map? How are you calculating AFR? How is the person you're talking to calculating AFR? Is their AFR sensor calibrated? This is why i said it's the "imaginary boundary".... it is a moving target that can so easily be set wrong because of a multitude of reasons. But your theoretical 18.0AFR limitation won't even let them find that out! But let's say it were calibrated and working properly, I had previously said "If you have the airflow to maintain "your" desired power with an 18.0AFR awesome do it!" This is in agreeance with you..... but what i had said also lets the person make the decision that's best for them and their style of driving. Being richer will bring on hotter EGT's, again agreeance with you, but it also helps spool the turbo sooner, and gets into boost sooner to make more power sooner, but creates higher DPF soot load sooner. It doesn't mean it's right or wrong for everyone... and that 18.0 AFR is all or nothing.... or even mean that some people just can't be helped lol! If you had said use caution around 18.0AFR i would have left it alone. But imagine a world where no one ever questioned anyone and took one's word for everything, there would be less breakthroughs and forward advancements. Even this video brings to light things thought to be previously impossible by some of the worlds smartest! https://youtu.be/yCsgoLc_fzI

To answer original questions, from my perspective. :cool:

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Originally Posted by Aus_spec_ranger

Hi everyone i'm from Australia and want to tune EGR map for a Ford Ranger 2018 PX2 3.2L 5 Cylinder Diesel engine.....my question is can the HP tuner software lower all EGR parameters so the EGR never opens up ?

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Yes, EGR flow control can be tuned out, but EGR operation (P5AT with SID209) only occurs at low-mid load up to 2500rpm, outside of that EGR is not active. The EGR tables do not impact DPF operation. Not sure you'll feel any difference in performance behaviour.

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Originally Posted by Aus_spec_ranger

also when tuning with the EGR off how would i go about tuning with the fuel correction ?

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No need. Fuel is [essentially] controlled by your right foot and running air rich won't hurt your motor. Running a richer (than stock) AFR will result in 'more frequent' DPF burns, but is heavily determined by your right foot.

If you want more power, suggest you swap turbo to a GT22 Powermax (or equivalent with the bigger shaft) to stay air rich as the stock turbo can't flow much extra. My [admittedly anecdotal] data is that the P5AT isn't a big fan of richer AFR's (people are happy to rave about tuning power increases but not so talkative about broken pistons).

Just my $0.02...

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Originally Posted by VFL77

To answer original questions, from my perspective. :cool:

Yes, EGR flow control can be tuned out, but EGR operation (P5AT with SID209) only occurs at low-mid load up to 2500rpm, outside of that EGR is not active. The EGR tables do not impact DPF operation. Not sure you'll feel any difference in performance behaviour.

No need. Fuel is [essentially] controlled by your right foot and running air rich won't hurt your motor. Running a richer (than stock) AFR will result in 'more frequent' DPF burns, but is heavily determined by your right foot.

If you want more power, suggest you swap turbo to a GT22 Powermax (or equivalent with the bigger shaft) to stay air rich as the stock turbo can't flow much extra. My [admittedly anecdotal] data is that the P5AT isn't a big fan of richer AFR's (people are happy to rave about tuning power increases but not so talkative about broken pistons).

Just my $0.02...

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Thanks heaps for the reply....when u said my right foot will add more fuel are u saying the ecu will see the extra fresh air when egr is blocked down low rpm and add more fuel from the fuel tables? Or are u saying diesle will run just as good lean and fuel will be added as per usual fuel trim maps ?

Also how do u know the p5at pistons are weak and brake at ritch Afrs ?

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Originally Posted by Aus_spec_ranger

....when u said my right foot will add more fuel are u saying the ecu will see the extra fresh air when egr is blocked down low rpm and add more fuel from the fuel tables? Or are u saying diesle will run just as good lean and fuel will be added as per usual fuel trim maps ?
Also how do u know the p5at pistons are weak and brake at ritch Afrs ?

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The accelerator specifies how much torque you want, The amount of fuel injected (for that torque and RPM combination) is determined by a Torque-to-Fuel lookup table. As best I can tell, the ECU only does a sanity check on MAF vs Fuel, it doesn't explicitly use MAF determine fuel (it's NOT a petrol engine).
It's clear you don't have a solid understanding of diesel motor fuelling operation, so spend some more time learning about how diesel engines differ from petrol when looking at fuelling and the consequences on AFR and EGT.

As said, my info is anecdotal, most (but not all) instances of P5AT failure are associated with tunes and piston failure. I'm always on the lookout for more info, but it's hard to get honest info.

I'm trying to understand the EGR tables in HP, but I'm struggling. I've done some logging and tried to get an understanding of what the numbers on the exhaust tables are referring to, but can't seem to work it out. I don't have "enable" "disable" on my tables as discussed above. I have Tourque (Nm) on Y axis and RPM on X axis with EGR Base Air Mass (mg). My assumption would be that if I set tables to 0mg the engine would command 0mg EGR, but none of the tables are set to 0mg and when logging I'm obviously getting 0% comanded EGR.

Also the 5 Setpoint Maps with differnt modes within each has me baffled.

If someone can give me a hint that would be great!

Car is a 2015 PX2 Ranger

Yes, set the SID208 EGR tables to zero. (opposite to SID209) I'm sure there is another thread about this?

For Ford, MODE0 is generally Normal Operation, Mode2 is DPF regen . Not sure about the others for SID208.

ok so i am in the process to find out if my EGR is turned off from a tunner at nizpro when my ranger got tuned for the 3inch exhaust....they said they turned it off but when i put the block off plate car ran shit and back fired..also when i went back and told them what happen they said you cant close the EGR because my car needs the EGR to build boost :doh: what a bunch of Balonneyyy.....

i guess its up to me to turn off my EGR tables.
so on almost all my EGR base tables i see this ? i remember VFL77 telling me to bump the numbers Very high to a number the engine will never see at low loads so the EGR never opens. here is that table


Attachment 118530


and in engine Diagnostics it looks like everything is disabled ??


Attachment 118531

also here is my VCM scanner reporting that it isnt opening ? is it safe to say EGR is closed ? but if so why is my ranger Very low on power with block off plate installed and back firing ?

Attachment 118532

Yeah I'd say that's disabled?

I know on SID208 it's 2048 for disable?

Having said that after approximately 40k extra on the clock I added the plate cleaned and kept driving.
At about 70k I added Provent 200 to filter the PCV valve then took out the plate just late last year 40k??ish since my intake is clean as a whistle and seems to have dropped 1l/100km.
I really think there is some benefit to the lower displacement allowed at cruising torques.

I did average the table out a little at 2k - 2.5k rpm for boost to maintain consumption at 110kmh.

Average EGR is 270 - 350c at 110kmh didn't really change much max temp wise but warms up much quicker and smoother shutdown.
Consumption is average of 7.4lph with BF Goodrich TA KO2's, TJM Full bar & Winch.

They are partially correct that you can’t block a SID209 with a plate, must be turned off in the tune like they have clearly done.

In SID209, the EGR valve is used as a boost reliever (blow off valve of sorts) when coming off throttle to keep the turbo speed up. If you plate it, there is nowhere for that air pressure to go but back through the turbo causing a speed drop and higher fuel usage to keep the turbo spooled. What you are hearing is not back firing but the turbo flutter.

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Originally Posted by happyhallsy8

Yeah I'd say that's disabled?

I know on SID208 it's 2048 for disable?

Having said that after approximately 40k extra on the clock I added the plate cleaned and kept driving.
At about 70k I added Provent 200 to filter the PCV valve then took out the plate just late last year 40k??ish since my intake is clean as a whistle and seems to have dropped 1l/100km.
I really think there is some benefit to the lower displacement allowed at cruising torques.

I did average the table out a little at 2k - 2.5k rpm for boost to maintain consumption at 110kmh.

Average EGR is 270 - 350c at 110kmh didn't really change much max temp wise but warms up much quicker and smoother shutdown.
Consumption is average of 7.4lph with BF Goodrich TA KO2's, TJM Full bar & Winch.

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Cheers Happy thats good to know...wow 7.4LPH that's amazing with big Tyre's and full bar good stuff...yeah with most catch cans on the ranger you lose abit of power because of the choke from 24mm down to 16mm almost half the size of breathing air volume.

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Originally Posted by Natedogg1986

They are partially correct that you can’t block a SID209 with a plate, must be turned off in the tune like they have clearly done.

In SID209, the EGR valve is used as a boost reliever (blow off valve of sorts) when coming off throttle to keep the turbo speed up. If you plate it, there is nowhere for that air pressure to go but back through the turbo causing a speed drop and higher fuel usage to keep the turbo spooled. What you are hearing is not back firing but the turbo flutter.

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so your saying they closed the EGR with the tune ? but when i put the block off plate in i am very very low on power i need at least 12% more throttle everywhere thru out the rev range to do what it did before ? also it back fires some times 4 times in total...its not turbo flutter.... i know what flutter sounds like.

i get what your saying with EGR used to bleed off exhuast gases and uses it to keep boost maintained.... but if the EGR plate is in the turbo vane Map table just adds more or less % of Vane command to address over boosting or not enough boost.

the more appropriate answer to the backfire is when EGR is active it commands the throttle plate to close half way to allow the EGR gases to flow more freely in the intake manifold so it doesn't have to combat/Fight the turbo cold side air coming into the intake manifold. I herd this from someone on HP tuners explaining this....so if i put the block off plate the ecu is restricting the air by still thinking EGR gases are coming inside the manifold so it closes the throttle plate half way and less air means less power to the point i think I'm killing the cylinder flame and backfiring ?

You do realise Diesels can’t backfire right?

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Originally Posted by Natedogg1986

You do realise Diesels can?t backfire right?

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sorry a backfire isn't a proper term.....a pritty loud bang coming out of the exhaust....2 other guy's herd it in my car and we all looked at each other thinking wtf why ? ....up a mountain hill no other car present and herd it again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RQqaf25ni50 similar to this but 5x louder

If it’s doing that it’s got a mechanical issue with an injector, not to do with EGR or the tune.

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Originally Posted by Natedogg1986

If it’s doing that it’s got a mechanical issue with an injector, not to do with EGR or the tune.

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Can't be a tune or injector problem....the loud bang happen at 23 thousand km 3 years ago when I put the block off plate in only for 2 days after 2 days I took off the block off plate....fast forward 3 years, car has 100 thousand km now and never backfired.....2 days ago I put the block off plate in agian and backfired like 2 times....egr is defiantly not turned off.....just need to know how to turn it off now

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Originally Posted by 9inty9er

To keep the valve closed change the open tables to 2048 on all 3 and close tables to 0 on all 3 dont change the regen tables have found this does add some boost between gear changes as the EGR appears to act like a blow off valve to reduce and smooth the boost curve preferably I like to leave it stock

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Anyone understand what he means by the 3 open tables? And close tables to 0 on all 3 ?

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Originally Posted by Aus_spec_ranger

ok so i am in the process to find out if my EGR is turned off from a tunner at nizpro when my ranger got tuned for the 3inch exhaust....they said they turned it off but when i put the block off plate car ran shit and back fired..also when i went back and told them what happen they said you cant close the EGR because my car needs the EGR to build boost :doh: what a bunch of Balonneyyy.....

i guess its up to me to turn off my EGR tables.
so on almost all my EGR base tables i see this ? i remember VFL77 telling me to bump the numbers Very high to a number the engine will never see at low loads so the EGR never opens. here is that table


Attachment 118530


and in engine Diagnostics it looks like everything is disabled ??


Attachment 118531

also here is my VCM scanner reporting that it isnt opening ? is it safe to say EGR is closed ? but if so why is my ranger Very low on power with block off plate installed and back firing ?

Attachment 118532

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Do all of your 11 tables look the same as my "Set point Map 1 - mode 3" is all 50?

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Originally Posted by hath

Do all of your 11 tables look the same as my "Set point Map 1 - mode 3" is all 50?

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Na only 2 map Tables are set to all 50's.....the rest of the map tables are a mixture of these maps i have uploaded..... why are you asking if all map tables are set to all 50 values ? is that what it should be to turn off EGR valve ?

Attachment 119278

Hey mate, sent you a msg, would you mind posting your tune file just so I can compare it to mine, coz I kind of have the same issues. Not 100% if my egr is closed correctly.
Thanks Anthony

Yeah cool check your inbox 👍

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Originally Posted by Aus_spec_ranger

Na only 2 map Tables are set to all 50's.....the rest of the map tables are a mixture of these maps i have uploaded..... why are you asking if all map tables are set to all 50 values ? is that what it should be to turn off EGR valve ?

Attachment 119278

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If your EGR tables look like the attached photo they might just be turned off at certain times.

Have to think about that when the boost is upped, tabled need to be adjusted also otherwise it will open the valve in high boost conditions causing AFR spikes to the rich side.

Msg me the tune if you want help.

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Originally Posted by Natedogg1986

If your EGR tables look like the attached photo they might just be turned off at certain times.

Have to think about that when the boost is upped, tabled need to be adjusted also otherwise it will open the valve in high boost conditions causing AFR spikes to the rich side.

Msg me the tune if you want help.

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yeah true AFR's will run ritch if EGR valve is open at WOT..... check your inbox Nate when your free

Hey guys i have extracted my factory tune but i read so much to try and figure out the egr tables and i just cant seem to figure out all the setpoint maps.
i have a 2016 3.2 ranger sid209. would really appreciate some help if possible.
cheers guys

Hey mate any chance i could get a copy of your tune file so i can compare it aswell?
would really be appreciated.

Hi All,

Having same issue on my 2018 everest sid 209, my cooler egr cooler started to leak so i have take it off completely and blanked EGR. Have made all tables for egr 1389 and when logging i can see its using injection maps 2 and 4. It has a horrible "droppig cyl like feel" that doesn't show in the the log at low pedal inputs below 2500 rpms and on decel

Any help would be appreciated