GoPro Hero 5 - Incorrect fields used by RR for Elevation and Distance

I have seen other messages about this, but the problem has not been properly identified and resolved.
Using DashWare (GoPro) to get the CSV for a Hero 5 video and using DashWare to get view elevation and distance data on the tools, I have found that RaceRender uses:

1. Column AK (Elevation_i) instead of column AN (Elevation meters)
2. No idea about how the distance is calculated, but should simply be columns BC for meters, BE for km

In my test file, RR puts me below sea level, whereas DashWare correctly puts me at about 28m and corresponds to column AN, and RR gives 141.77m for the total distance, whereas DashWare gives 127.61m which corresponds to column BC in the DashWare csv file.

I exported the data file from RR to a CSV to compare with the one from DashWare. I don't get the same number or rows. For my test file, the DashWare file has 1440 rows whereas RR exports 1310 rows. Thus, a method proposed by one user to replace the bad column doesn't work.

As well, exporting from RR to a GPX file produced 1305 rows, still with incorrect altitude and distance information. I use GPSU for reading GPS data (GPX file).

Can someone else confirm the above?

Other question:
I added an altitude graph and I noticed that there is no way to label the axes, no way to have vertical grid lines at horizontal intervals, no x-axis labelling (y-axis only). The label can only stay within the graph. Am I missing something? I have RR Advanced.

Thank you,

Unfortunately I do not have a Gopro to test on your behalf. My action camera is an Olympus tracker but I assume the principals are the same and I'll try and help you as best I can. First, do all your columns have labels? The reason I ask is that I generated a csv file from my camera. I then added a column calling it "Speedo." I then added random numbers down the column and saved the csv file. In RR3, I imported the edited csv file. I created a Text Data display and in properties selected the field "Speedo" (RR3 displayed the field I arbitrarily created). It worked. I then did the same for a speedometer gauge and again was successful. Also, in the config screen for the csv file, you can change the "Automatic" field to the one you require and even create custom fields which you can adjust or convert. Sometimes my temperature gauge reads a little too hot (I think it is due to the heat from the internal battery) so I am able to adjust the temperature down by a correction factor.

Hi,

All of the columns of the csv file from DashWare have labels. Changing the csv file and re-importing it is a good idea, unfortunately, as I mentioned the number of rows is not the same and there are other problems. The csv file created by RR only has 5 columns: Time, Latitude, Longitude, Altitude(m), and Speed (m/s), thus it does not contain all of the fields of the actual source. As well, the number of rows is off. My latest test files has 480 rows in the csv file created by DashWare, 405 in the csv file created by RR. I could copy the first 405 rows of the correct altitude column from the DashWare file but that would not be correct. The last row in each file corresponds to each other, meaning row 480 in Dashware = row 405 in RR. Doesn't work. As well, there is no column in the RR csv file for Distance.
I tried importing the DashWare csv into RR instead of letting RR get the information from the GoPro file. This worked and I was able to select the correct columns to put in the charts. However, exporting this to GPX was worse; no altitude information, only 316 points, and the distance is way off.

When I film a hike, for example, I stop recording when I stop, then start again when I start. This creates a bunch of GoPro files. I simply want the correct GPX information from each file. I can combine the files in RR to get one GPX file, or I can use GPSU to do this, and then reduce the number of points as there are far too many. In GPSU, I can also take care of any wild points that sometimes occur. With that, I use either Vasco da Gama to trace the route on the map, or Travel Route Animation in Magix Movie Edit Pro to trace the route on the map (it uses different types of maps from OpenStreetMap). Both are animations. I also import the GPS into Google Earth Pro to get a profile and sometimes just also use the image of the route over the landscape. I only bought RR to get the converted files, although I could export my route with my gauge set up on a green screen, import into the video editor and process the video there. GoPro clips almost all need stabilization and colour correction. Etc.

Attachment 83718

Attachment 83719

RR should just simply correct the program.

Eh John,
So the problem seems to be due to the multiple files you are concatenating. Most users of RR 3 turn on their camera(s) once for each event be it a car race or a drone flight for example. Like me, you videotape segments during your hike/run/bike. With my Olympus tracker, I can turn on my GPS/telemetry data tracker, go for a hike and not take a single video or photo but still end up with a data file which I can use to map my journey. Correct me if I am wrong but I don't believe the GoPro has this functionality. The GoPro may receive GPS data when turned on but it does not record it until you press the video/photo button. In my case, I may have multiple videos but one long data file (actually two; one for GPS and the second for the other sensors but RR3 is smart enough to combine them into one file). You on the other hand have multiple videos and multiple data tracks. And herein lies the problem. These data tracks have time gaps when you take a break to rest or have lunch. And it is these time gaps which may be a problem.

To test this hypothesis, record just one single event and load it into Dashware and RR 3 and compare the results. Do they produce the same results? There may be differences because one is configured to use imperial measurements vs metric. Generate the related CSV files. Do they have the same data points or are they different for this single event. If there is a difference, it may be due to a optimisation process to reduce redundant data or there may be an actual problem with the data extraction. Even though RR3 may not have as many data columns as Dashware, it may have a background process to generate the same result with the data it uses. For example, speed can be calculated from the change in GPS marks and time.

In the change log for RR 3.6.6 it does state "small improvements for loading GoPro 5/6 GPS data" so I wouldn't rule out that the system may need some additional tweaks. Interestingly I came across this post from the Gopro support hub. It may help you:https://community.gopro.com/t5/Camer...om/td-p/171206

Hi Candive,

No, please see my first post. The problem is with each individual file, not concatenating files.

RR uses the wrong column from the GoPro file for altitude, each and every time, and I have no idea how the distance is calculated by RR. There is a distance column in the GoPro file and it is used by DashWare; RR always gives a length that is relatively much longer.

A simple case. I did a short route where I live. I used the GPS on my cell phone and GoPro to film the route. I used RR to export a GPX file of the GoPro route. Upon mapping, the routes are close, but the lengths are different and the elevations in the GPX file produced by RR have me at -9. m; that is, 9 m below sea level. I live at about 25 m above sea level. The delta is about 34m. RR uses the wrong data - each and every time. The elevations in the GPS file from my cell phone are all around +25m.

If I compare the delta of each row between columns AN and AK, the difference is about 34, but is not always the same delta; it's more like 34 +/- 2m.

Below is one example:
Attachment 83759
Attachment 83760
Attachment 83761
Attachment 83762
Attachment 83763
Attachment 83764
The last one is GPX exported from RR using the GoPro video file import.
Attachment 83765

Hi John,
I apologise for initially misunderstanding your issue. Thanks for the screen shots. A picture is worth a thousand words. First let?s agree on an understanding of the definition of Altitude versus Elevation. To my understanding, Elevation is always measured from sea level and is used to describe the height of mountains etc. Altitude on the other hand can be based on sea level or ground level and usually pertains to flight - such as a plane or drone. Say an airport is close to your house and the elevation is 25 - 30 metres above sea level. If a Pilot has to land in fog, he wants to know that his altitude is 202 meters above the runway rather than 232 meters above sea level to land the plane safely. That is the reason your data file shows Altitude at 202 and Elevation at 232. The ground area must be around 30 meters above sea level.

If you are using the Dashware data file, you must select the correct field in RR 3 in your Object properties. When it opens a data log, RR 3 does a best guess and selects a field which it thinks you want. In your screen shot, ?Field Y? is Altitude (m). In this case RR 3 selected Elevation_i or Altitude Meters (column AS). Open the drop down box and select ?Elevation Meters.? Do the same for ?Field X.? Open the drop box and select ?Distance Meters.?

The RR 3 GPX shows Altitude. If you want to convert it to Elevation, since you know the differential, you can make this adjustment as a calculated custom field in the data config window. Once you have your configuration file set up, you can then export it to save it. Every time you load a new data log, you can re-import the config setup so you don?t have to manually make the changes again.

As for the distance calculation, I suspect RR 3 is taking the GPS coordinates and calculating the distance from them. I cannot explain why there is a difference between RR 3 and Dashware since they are both reporting in metres. Perhaps you could use a third source (phone or GPS watch) to confirm which is more accurate. Suffice to say, Dashware is owned by GoPro so they can ask GoPro how to extract all the relevant data. The team at HP Tuners do not have this luxury and have to probably reverse engineer the data. But the great thing about RR 3 is that it can read data from many more devices. I tried Dashware but it could not read my Olympus proprietary telemetry log. On the other hand, RR 3 read it in an instant.:)


Attachment 83766
Attachment 83767

Hi Candive,

Thanks for your reply.

I incorrectly used altitude and elevation as being the same, meaning height above sea level. In the first spreadsheet, you can see that the columns AK and AN are both labeled Elevation. Here is another one taken in North Bay, Ontario where the published elevation is 197m and the nearby airport is at 370m:

Here is the spreadsheet from Dashware:
Attachment 83776
and the screen shots of RR and Dashware:
Attachment 83777
Attachment 83778
and from the map:
Attachment 83779
Note that the difference in elevation between AK (160m) and AN (197) is about 37 to 38m. What you imply is that there must an airport nearby at elevation 37 approx. Nope, off by a factor of 10, at 370m. As well, if we talk about altitude, then the GoPro was about 1.2m above the ground.
I have another one somewhat north of North Bay. Here is the route on the map. This uses the GPX file exported from RR but the contour lines, of course, have nothing to do with the elevations in the file. First point is the south one, elevation just over 300m:
Attachment 83780
CSV from DashWare:
Attachment 83781
RR beginning and end:
Attachment 83782

Attachment 83783
I have used up my allotted 10 attachments so I'll continue with another post. Oops, there were 2 that shouldn't be there, so I deleted them.
I realize that I can make adjustments within RR as to which column to use, but the actual problem is that exporting from RR to gpx gives me the wrong elevations. I can't use the elevations from the file to make a profile at even close to the correct elevations. RR uses the wrong data to create the gpx file.

Here are the files from Dashware (GoPr1059);
Attachment 83784
Attachment 83785
and the GPX file from GPSU that was created by exporting from RR to gpx:
Attachment 83786
Attachment 83787
This shows that the gpx file has incorrect information, particularly the elevation data, that cannot be used.
I still do not know how the distance is calculated. The map shows the same distance as the RR gpx file, not the distance given by DashWare.

The gpx file from my cell phone is very good. I would always use this, but in at least one case, my cell phone died and I had to rely on the GoPro.

Now, I just want RR to correct their export to gpx to have the correct information for the elevations and the distances.

I will take another walk of about a km using both the gps of my cell phone and the GoPro and make another comparison. Unfortunately, it will be along the lake so there will be little elevation change.

Hi John,

I think I am beginning to understand. Correct me if I am wrong on any of the following assumptions,
1. Your goal is to create a gpx file from your Gopro.
2. The Gopro software and Dashware cannot generate a gpx file although Dashware can generate a csv file.
3. RR 3 can generate a gpx file from the data extracted from the Gopro video but the elevation data is "incorrect."

John, one question I have is; do you know what Elevation_i actually represents?

Without having access to your data, and based on just your screen shots, here are some of my observations.

Dashware produces 8 columns pertaining to Altitude or Elevation; AK, AM, AN, AO, AR, AS, AV, AW. The following is my guess to what each column means:

AK = (Elevation_i) is the elevation based on the internal (i for internal) barometric sensor in the Gopro.
AM = is close to AK so I'll assume it?s some averaging algorithm of AK (Elevation_i)
AN = is the elevation based on the GPS coordinates and their corresponding elevation results from topographical surveys.
AO = is AN meters converted to feet
AR = zero? I think it should be minimum Altitude based on AM in feet
AS = is the minimum Altitude based on AM in meters
AV = zero? I think it should be maximum Altitude based on AM in meters
AW = is the maximum Altitude based on AM in feet.

RR 3 is extracting Elevation_i or the internal barometer reading in the Gopro and calling it Altitude (m). It is not incorrect. It measures the atmospheric pressure at the time of reading. At ground level, it will be close to but not necessarily equal to the GPS elevation because atmospheric pressure is always changing (think weather). As you travel higher in the air, the atmospheric pressure reduces and therefore can be used to measure Altitude. If you fly a drone 100 meters in the air, you don't want to use the ground GPS elevation - that tells you nothing about the height of your drone. But the barometer will.

I'll give you another example. When I go for a run, I wear a Garmin GPS watch which has an internal barometer. When I map my run in Garmin Connect, I'm given a choice; use the reading from the barometer or use the elevation data associated with the GPS coordinates. Personally I don't care since I'm really only interested in the change in elevation. When I review my charts post run and see my heart rate go up, I'll see a corresponding increase in elevation indicating I was running up a hill at the time. Both the Barometer and GPS elevation will show this change and tell me I was running up a hill. Does the difference in reading between the barometer and GPS matter? No, it still was a bloody steep hill!

Some of the data produced by my Olympus tracker include Altitude (m), Barometer (mbar), Manometer (m). When I go scuba diving, I use Manometer. It's not because Altitude or Barometer are incorrect; it's just that Manometer measures depth.

So is the data from the RaceRender gpx file incorrect? No, it's just pulling the sensor data from the Gopro. And the data basically matches the sensor data extracted by Dashware as you have demonstrated. It's not incorrect, its just not what you want. On the other hand, drone pilots will want this data.

So what can you do? I would pursue Gopro and Dashware to produce a gpx file! Just browsing the internet, you are not the only one looking for this solution.

In the meantime, if you want to continue using RaceRender to generate the gpx file, load the video into RR 3 and spit out the CSV. Edit the CSV in Excel and add/subtract an adjustment factor to each row to bring the Altitude more in line with the GPS elevation. Save the new CSV and import it back into RR 3 and produce the gpx.

Personally, I probably wouldn't worry about it. I would be just happy knowing I can use RR 3 to generate a reasonably accurate gpx file! Obviously Dashware/Gopro can?t do it! But who knows, the developers at HP Tuners may read your post and add a column to GoPro gpx file to include elevation. You may need to buy them a case of beer though.:) I don't think it is a matter of not capturing all the source data. I believe Dashware does a lot of calcs based on the same extraction and posts it into the csv while RR 3 does the calcs internally (eg distance).

Also you mention a difference in distance of 128 m vs 142 m. That is a difference of only 14 meters. I own two Garmin GPS watches; they would never be that close on the same run.

As for your question regarding the graph, you can add labels to the graph by using text for the x and y axis. Just turn off the label within the graph and add your own text outside the graph. If you have a particular graph that you would like to use, just design it and post it to this forum. Someone may be able to create it for you. Maybe another case of beer would help.:chug:

Hi Candive,

Thank you for your detailed reply.

Yes to your first 3 points.

I don't know what Elevation_i is referring to. However, as I mentioned, I live at about 25-26m above sea level. Elevation_i puts me below sea level, so the drone would be at the bottom of the lake, no? Remember, I am walking and the distance of the drone (the GoPro on my chest mount) is about 1.4m. Also remember that RR is mainly for cars, so the car would be at the bottom of the lake or underground according to RR.

DashWare only produces a csv, unfortunately.

Here is a screen shot of the csv file when I export to csv from RR:
Attachment 83818

RR should be providing the ground elevation, not something else that we can't even identify.

The distance is always 10-15% more with RR than indicated in the Dashware file. I did a test yesterday, almost 2km with the GoPro and the gps program on my cell phone.
Total distance:
Cell phone GPS program (Retrace): 1928m
DashWare: 1947m
RR: 2563m

Here is the DashWare screen shot at the end of the route:
Attachment 83819

Note that the chart has x and y values and the labels on the outside of the graph, which is the normal way that graphs are done. RR should simply fix theirs and have x values and labels.

Here is the RR screen shot at the end of the route (or the last frame that RR shows). Remember, I am using the same information that RR exports to GPX for the elevation:
Attachment 83812

Route on map using the Cell Phone GPS program:
Attachment 83813

GPSU - last points of GPX file from Cell Phone GPS program (Retrace). Note the total distance and elevation (GPSU labels it Altitude)
Attachment 83814

The Cell Phone gps data and Dashware are reasonably close to each other. RR is way off on elevation and distance because RR uses the wrong information. I can use the correct columns in RR, but the exported GPX will replicate the incorrect data, so the GPX file is useless except for coordinates and time.

That said, GoPro is notorious for its incorrect data, particularly elevation. The GoPro route itself, in this particular case, has some significant errors near the beginning, which is why GPSU is useful to correct major anomalies. However, RR should at least use the correct columns of data.

As another check, I used the Cell phone GPS data from Retrace in Google Earth Pro (GE) to show the track and the elevation profile. I did another one with the GPX exported from RR. The total distance using Retrace was 1.93km, for RR GPX was 2.13km as calculated by GE, but RR itself shows 2.563 km. It appears that GE uses its own data for the elevation (and distance) and not that from the gps files, because the profiles for both cases are quite similar. For the RR file, the elevations ranged from 24 to 31m, and 23 to 31m for the Retrace file.

Given that, I can live with this, thanks to GE. However, that does not correct the data from RR. An error in distance of 10-15% is unacceptable, and the elevation is clearly using the wrong information.

Here is the GE map with the Elevation chart for the RR GPX file:
Attachment 83815
GE map with Elevation chart for the Cell Phone Retrace GPX file:
Attachment 83816
GE map of major error by GoPro in the RR GPX file (not caused by RR):
Attachment 83817
GE map using Retrace file showing correct route in the same area:
Attachment 83820
Please don't mix up the error in the route with errors in elevation and distance in RR. They are still there.

For anyone interested, here are all of the labels of the columns in the csv file produced by DashWare:
GlobalTime,Camera:TICK[Time],Camera:TICK[0],Camera:TSMP[Time],Camera:TSMP[0],Camera:TMPC[Time],Camera:TMPC[0],Camera:SIUN[Time],Camera:SIUN[0],Camera:SIUN[1],Camera:SIUN[2],Camera:SIUN[3],Camera:ACCL[Time],Camera:ACCL[0],Camera:ACCL[1],Camera:ACCL[2],Camera:GYRO[Time],Camera:GYRO[0],Camera:GYRO[1],Camera:GYRO[2],Camera:GPSF[Time],Camera:GPSF[0],Camera:GPSU[Time],Camera:GPSU[0],DateTime,Camera:GPSP[Time],Camera:GPSP[0],Precision_i,Camera:GPS5[Time],Camera:GPS5[0] (deg),Camera:GPS5[1] (deg),Camera:GPS5[2] (m),Camera:GPS5[3] (m/s),Camera:GPS5[4] (m/s),Latitude_i,Longitude_i,Elevation_i,Speed_i,Elev ation_avg,Elevation Meters,Elevation Feet,Total Ascent Meters,Total Descent Meters,Altitude Min Meters,Altitude Max Meters,Total Ascent Feet,Total Descent Feet,Altitude Min Feet,Altitude Max Feet,Speed KPH,Speed MPH,GPS_X,GPS_Y,Distance Feet,Distance Meters,Distance Miles,Distance Kilometers,Raw Heading,Heading,Raw GPS AccelGs,Raw GPS LatGs,GPS AccelGs,GPS LatGs,GPS 2D Gs,Camera:ISOG[Time],Camera:ISOG[0],Camera:SHUT[Time],Camera:SHUT[0]

Bottom line: RR should simply fix their program to export correct information to GPX.

Hi John,
I admire your tenacity and determination in trying to resolve your problem but I now have a bruise on my forehead from banging my head against a brick wall.:banghead: Only kidding :). I am happy to look at your data file if you are willing to post it to this forum. If the file size it too big, you can load the Dashware csv and the RR 3 csv into Dropbox or One drive or any other storage facility and post the link so that I and perhaps other forum members can take a look at your data.

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I don't know what Elevation_i is referring to.

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In the meantime,you should ask Gopro/Dashware what Elevation_i is since this is the data which is causing you all the problems. I believe it is the raw data generated by the cameras sensor and RR 3 is just pulling this raw data out and using it.

Everything that you said, by your own admission, does not point to RaceRender but to the Gopro camera itself. The camera is the problem as you have stated.

Quote:

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That said, GoPro is notorious for its incorrect data, particularly elevation. The GoPro route itself, in this particular case, has some significant errors near the beginning, which is why GPSU is useful to correct major anomalies. However, RR should at least use the correct columns of data.

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You are making the wrong assumption that RaceRender generates or has access to the same columns as Dashware. It does not. They are two different programs. John, why do you think Dashware generated a column called Elevation_ave? Because the raw data Elevaton_i is inconsistent and they know it and therefore use averaging to smooth out the results. Remember Dashware is owned by Gopro so they know how to fix the anomalies of the camera in their software. Likewise, the camera spits out spurious GPS results which you manually fix. Since RR3 uses this same raw/corrupt data and not some smoothed adjustment, isn't it obvious to you that elevation and distance calculated will be off. That is a Gopro problem; not a RaceRender problem. To use a software programming acronym; GIGO - Garbage in;Garbage out.:doh:

But the Gopro barometer reading is not necessarily wrong. If there is a high pressure system in your area (sunny day), the barometer would read above 1 bar and the resulting elevation calculated will be negative. This is not incorrect, it's a fact. This is how barometers work. So yes the reading could indicate that you are underwater but that would be an acceptable variance based on the atmospheric conditions. With my Olympus Tracker, I can recalibrate the altitude in the camera?s setting to take into account the atmospheric pressure against a known altitude position. I assume this adjustment setting is unfortunately not available in the Gopro. If it was, we probably wouldn?t be having this conversation since you would be making this adjustment in the camera.

Finally John, here is a list of my demands to the appropriate parties.
Gopro fix your camera - it captures and generates inaccurate data.
Dashware fix your software - column AR in your CSV file should not be zero
Dashware fix your software - column AV in your CSV file should not be zero
Dashware fix your software - so it can generate a gpx file; like RR 3
Dashware fix your software - so it can read my sensor data file from my Olympus TG Tracker; like RR 3

John, do you think I'm being unreasonable? Actually, I don't think your request is unreasonable but I think your issue should be directed towards Gopro/Dashware rather than HP Tuners.

Like I said, I am more than happy to review your data if you post it. As for your graph, this is a separate issue. I'll post something for you to look at to see if it meets your needs.

Hi John,
Here is my suggestion of an elevation graph using some of the tools available in RR 3. As the video plays, you would see the actual numbers change.
Attachment 83860

Hi John,
I was just reviewing the screen shots you posted. Essentially you have all the tools necessary to create the gpx file you require. One tool won't work, but a combination will. Dashware produces the csv file you require and RR 3 produces the gpx file. So the trick is to convert the csv into the required RR 3 format to be converted into the gpx. Note, you do not use the raw data extracted by RR 3 from the Gopro video file. To start off with you would need columns for; Time, GPS Coordinates, Elevation (the one you want). I'm not sure about Distance since RR 3 may generate that from the GPS coordinates itself. So your work flow would be as follows:
1. Generate csv from Dashware.
2. Edit csv in excel spreadsheet to match the required format for RR 3
3. Export/save new csv
4. Import new csv into RR 3 and generate gpx

Most work will be around trial and error to get the Dashware csv into the required RR 3 format.

Good luck and let the forum know when you succeed in the conversion so others can follow your lead. :)

Hi Candive,

If you look closely at my elevation chart in the RR screens with the green background, you'll see that I have done exactly that, elevation, distance and time readouts.
This does not solve the problems of distance and elevation if I want to use something else to create a chart or map the route, like Travel Route Animation in Magix nle's or Vasco da Gama. The best would be simply for RR to correct the export files to use the correct elevation and the distance columns. It seems that the calculation of the distance using the coordinates increases the distance for some reason, possibly due to the granularity.

Google Earth ignores the elevations, apparently and uses it's own. Here is a reply that a friend received a while back about GE changing the profiles over time, meaning the information in a chart generated by GE would be different today from a few years ago:
"Commercial GPS receivers are notorious for poor elevation readings.
Even sitting stationary on a shelf, the GPS will report elevation as a wandering number, even when latitude and longitude become fairly stable.
To compensate for these errors, mapping programs will use other sources to report the elevation at the lat/long from your GPS receiver. The source of Google Earth?s elevation data is a combination of elevation data from ASTER and SRTM.

ASTER is the Advanced Space-borne Thermal Emission and Reflection Radiometer, and SRTM is the Shuttle Radar Topography Mission. Both have their own intrinsic errors, but taken together can compensate for each others faults.

Elevation models are constantly being improved. The latest model is the Global Digital Elevation Model Version 2 (GDEM V2). I'm sure that Google is updating their terrain profiles to reflect the current research in elevation modeling from multiple sources."

Yes our charts are very similar. Mine has a white background because I wanted to replicate as close as possible the graph produced by Dashware. But wouldn't you agree that the RR 3 graph and data are better visually? The viewer can actually see the numbers change as the line moves across the chart. And I agree it has nothing to do with the distance and elevation issue with regards to generating the gpx. But in terms of the graph, RR 3 allows you to select the elevation and distance column from the Dashware csv and apply it to the video in RR 3. Therefore, you can create a video in RR 3 using the data you want displayed. So you have a choice; you can do it in Dashware or you can do it in RR 3. Agreed?

Now comes the tricky bit;

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The best would be simply for RR to correct the export files to use the correct elevation and the distance columns.

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If you import the Gopro video into RR 3, it extracts the data and creates a log file. When you look at this log file, what elevation and distance columns is RR 3 not using? Which "correct" ones are your referring to? Perhaps I am misunderstanding you. You are saying; to correct the export files (gpx?) RR should use the correct elevation and distance columns. Your statement implies RR 3 is generating the correct columns but not using them for the export files.

Or are you saying that when RR 3 generates the log file from the Gopro video, it does not generate the "correct" elevation and distance columns. (I think this is what you mean but correct me if I am wrong).

Hi Candive,

I agree that the readout is a good method of seeing the elevation and distance (or time) while the video is playing. However, the graph in RR is still bad. Look at all of the parameters that one can play with. This is quite sophisticated, but is definitely lacking the x-axis information, and the title cannot be moved vertically - it is usually in the way. Yes, I can turn it off and add text to the screen, but really, this should all be possible within the user interface window. I find it strange that they went so far and then stopped slightly short of a complete solution.

For the data, after quite a bit of searching around with kajuna on the GoPro site, with the author of GPSU and a friend who plays around with gps files a lot, it seems that, with the exception of Dashware, the distance is calculated using the latitude and longitude points. The elevation is also that given by the source GoPro file, however, that information is wrong. Somehow, Dashware corrects it and uses the elevation information that I have shown. RaceRender does not have this same corrected elevation data as one of the fields.

How Dashware gets the corrected elevation information, I don't know, but it could be that it uses a 'Digital Elevation Model' (DEM) built in and so can derive elevations from the coordinate data. If this is the case, then it would be helpful if RR would do the same and use this data for the exported GPX file rather than the incorrect source data.

As for the distance, because the GoPro is not very accurate in providing the coordinates and sometimes points will "wander" off of the track, it may be that Dashware is doing some smoothing or something to get the distance to be much closer to actual. There is no field in RR that gives distance information similar to Dashware that I can find.

Unless RR does something to correct the information, the solution for correcting the information oneself is a bit laborious. Right now, I would export from RR to GPX, import this into GPSU, reduce the number of points using their smoothing command (gets rid of points that wander off of the track by a value selected by the user), use the result to get DEM information, export the result, and replace the file in RR with the corrected one.

Where is the log file that you refer to?

I tried exporting from RR to gpx or kml, importing the track into Google Earth Pro, exporting the track from GE, but the result did not change the elevation information. The elevation chart in GE looks good, but the export is wrong. It did, however, reduce the distance from 2565m to 2165m. Then in GPSU, I reduced the number of points by limiting the Off route/track distance to 2 m. It went from about 1900 points to 78 and the distance to 1959, which is much closer to the distance indicated by Dashware and by my gps program. I then imported this into RR and used the distance information from this file instead of the source. However, I am still off with the elevation information.

I will pursue getting DEM information into GPSU.

The alternative would be to calculate the average error in elevation using the columns in the Dashware csv, and make an adjustment in RR (a calculated field). This would probably be close enough if I can't find a better solution.

Hi John,

I think you are on the right track with regards to addressing your issues. You have a number of options at your disposal.

With regards to the graph, if you are happy with the Dashware version and the software provides you with the correct elevation and distance then I suggest you use it to produce your videos.

In terms of the log file, I’m referring to the csv/gpx files that RR 3 generates. These files contain the data RR 3 is using. As I indicated, I do not own a Gopro so I can not replicate the log files generated. In your previous post you indicate that RR 3 should use the correct columns but I don’t see these columns in the RR 3 csv screen shot you previously provided; hence my question to you in my last post. I do see that RR3 is extracting the same elevation data as Dashware so it is extracting the same data provided by the camera.

I took a look at GPSU’s web page and it doesn’t look like it can import csv files. It can export csv’s but I couldn’t find anything about importing csv’s. I assume this would make your life easier because your could then import the Dashware csv file directly into GPSU. Perhaps you can make that suggestion to the GPSU developer.

My final suggestion would be to use a separate source to generate your gps data, be it your phone, or another gps tracker since the Gopro doesn’t seem to be that reliable. Certainly use the camera to video your treks and then synch them to your data log generated by your gps unit in post production. The tracker, would more than likely generate a gpx or equivalent file which you could import directly into a mapping program without going through an intermediate conversion.

Hi Candive,

I should have been clearer in my last post. I thought that RR had a field with the correct elevation information, but it doesn't, or at least I can't find it. How Dashware does it is unknown. Same with Distance. The csv and gpx files exported by RR do not have the corrected elevation information in them as you can see below. The elevations are below sea level in this file. These are the exports of the same file from RR.

Attachment 83977
Attachment 83978

Interestingly, the csv file has 26,243 points, the gpx file has 20884 points.

I mentioned that one solution would be to calculate the average error in elevation using the columns in the Dashware csv, and make an adjustment in RR (a calculated field). This would probably be close enough to use in RR if I can't find a better solution. However, this corrected information cannot be exported.

GPSU can import csv files, but not directly. They need to be converted using the GPSU Import File Converter utility. The fields are defined in this utility. I worked with the author of GPSU to import the Dashware csv file. The Distance column from the Dashware file is ignored, as GPSU, like RR, calculates distance from the coordinates. We succeeded in getting the correct elevation data. By using the compression feature in GPSU, we were then able to smooth the route. This gave a distance closer to what is shown by Dashware and by my gps. I could also view the route and remove any points that were obviously errors. However, this is also laborious.

The problem, as I mentioned somewhere near the beginning, is that it is not always possible to have a gps track. In my case, my cell phone died so I used the GoPro to complete the route. Other users of GoPros also want to be able to use the GoPro data. I have been able to sort out these problems, but other users likely will not.

RR should still look into the elevation problem.

As for the chart, yes, I can use the Dashware elevation chart, but RR should still improve theirs.

Hi John,
I came across this post which may be able to help you on your quest. Apparently this utility can convert the Gopro data into a gpx file. Perhaps you can evaluate it with your data to determine if it meets your requirements.

https://community.gopro.com/t5/GoPro...at/gpm-p/40293

Hi Candive,

I guess I forgot to mention that one. I have it, used it, and it gives about the same data as RR. See the last messages of this thread - pages 10-12, here is page 11:

https://community.gopro.com/t5/GoPro.../40293/page/11

With this, we concluded that Dashware gets the information from a DEM and inputs it into the elevation meters field. I also saw a message in the GoPro forum in which this was mentioned.