Critique my tune please; '16 ZO6, Magnuson 2300

Here's one of the most recent logs. I'm still trying to chase down the KR. I've incrementally stepped it up to 104 octane with Boostane, no effect on KR. I've reduced the timing by the amount of KR in the affected cells, no effect on KR. I've adjusted PE to come on at 30% throttle and 1% tq, no effect on KR. I'm going to throw some MS109 in tomorrow and see if it is still showing up. If that's the case I'm going to go ahead and call it false knock. My burst knock tables are already zero'd out.

Attachment 90556

knock sensors??

false knock from torque model

So the fix is to desensitized knock sensors or adjust virtual torque or something else?

if normal methods don't fix it then it's somewhere in the torque model. VTT, DD, etc

For E85 are you guys zeroing out the SOI Alcohol Offset table? I'm afraid those modifiers are moving SOI to well before EVC in some cases.

Also, there are a few tables that top out around .8 g/cyl, SOI Alcohol Offset and Virtual TQ being the two I'm thinking of right now. What happens at values above .8 g/cyl? Do those conditions all just reference the .8 column/row?

you can change the VTT Editor but the normal tables in the calibration reference the last value

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prop Job

For E85 are you guys zeroing out the SOI Alcohol Offset table? I'm afraid those modifiers are moving SOI to well before EVC in some cases.

Also, there are a few tables that top out around .8 g/cyl, SOI Alcohol Offset and Virtual TQ being the two I'm thinking of right now. What happens at values above .8 g/cyl? Do those conditions all just reference the .8 column/row?

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I zero'ed out my Alcohol Offset table only after upgrading to LT1 injectors.

I just adjusted the cells that would take SOI beyond 360 so that they will only increase to 360. Getting ready to go data log in a few minutes. I'll post back up with the results.

Well I'm still losing rail pressure and Inj PW skyrockets by the time I can get the pedal to the floor with E60. I found the SOI channel and am in the low 300's when rail pressure starts to drop so the cause is not that I'm throwing fuel out the exhaust valve like I originally thought. I was playing with bringing in the low side and high side to 550 KPa and 22 MPa earlier to see if having the rails better primed for the coming demand would help but the rails are still draining. I guess I truly am out of fuel. Lowered the E to 50% and high side still couldn't keep up. Guess my next course of action is to determine what E% I can safely support. Once I find my max % are there some alarms/dtc's I can modify to go off above a certain E%, or above 6ms inj PW, or rail px below 2500 psi so I can be confident the car has a safe blend of fuel without having to be plugged in to it?

You guys have any other suggestions?

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You're just out of high side. Our ZL1 with headers and a Maggie 2300 I couldn't get over 20% e content. That was the limit. The knock you are seeing is probably from the static retard table. Any positive values in the static retard table show as knock in the logs. LT4's have up to 5 degrees on what's labeled "cyl 1".

Can you elaborate a bit more on the static retard and why on one cyl?

Yep, I see it in the table on cyl#1. What's the fix? Zero out the whole table or just deal with the false knock?

That's got to be what I'm seeing in the log. Those are the exact parameters I'm seeing the KR and the graph is the exact shape of the KR in the log.

I've decided to postpone my ventures into ethanol. Looks like the car will need a cam with bigger fuel lobe and big bore hpfp. The gain from E20 not worth the risk of getting the wrong mixture in there and running out of fuel. I'm not going to drive around logging every time I put some ethanol in so just going to go the safe route for now.

So is that false Kr for sure??? I get that sometimes on 2,5,6 2-3 deg. Are you planning to dyno it soon? maybe they have the proper tools to listen to see if its a real knock or false.

It's not really false knock. It's the ECU pulling timing on that cylinder per that table and it just shows as knock in the logger. And it's actually cylinder #2 as that table starts a 0 and ends at 7. On bolt on LT4's I usually just cut it in half. If you log individual knock for each cylinder, cyl 2 always has more activity when that table is zeroed. 5 degrees of retard is excessive though.

Whats SOI stand for? sorry new guy here lol

SOI = Start of injection.

I was curious if that was actually the #2 cyl or #2 in the firing order.

Why does that cyl need special treatment?

Would I be taking to much of a risk if I zero the table out?

Should I still keep stock knock sensor settings with my setup (2300, 70 mm pulley, bolt on's, pump 93) or desensitize?

I also made another discovery yesterday, the after write idle issue I was experiencing was due to the Vitesse Throttle Controller. Removed it and now it acts normal after writing.

I'll be putting it on the dyno next Tue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Prop Job

SOI = Start of injection.

I was curious if that was actually the #2 cyl or #2 in the firing order.

Why does that cyl need special treatment?

Would I be taking to much of a risk if I zero the table out?

Should I still keep stock knock sensor settings with my setup (2300, 70 mm pulley, bolt on's, pump 93) or desensitize?

I also made another discovery yesterday, the after write idle issue I was experiencing was due to the Vitesse Throttle Controller. Removed it and now it acts normal after writing.

I'll be putting it on the dyno next Tue.

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Thank you

You can zero it out but I found for bolt on cars it works best to just half it. It allows a little more timing for the other cylinders. Desensitized knock sensors are controversial. I usually add a little to the multipliers. I have gone as high as adding 50% to them for testing. I won't send a customer car out with them that high. Maybe adding half that. It really depends on the set up. A big cam, big boost, high power, with lots of noise, will require less knock sensitivity. I have pulled tunes from some big name shops where the multipliers are between 7 and 10. That's around 3 times over stock. Way to high imo.

I zero'd out the static retard table and went for an easy-ish drive (3500 rpm, 40% throttle, 1.0 g/cyl). Only saw 1 second during a 33 min log where cyl #5 went to 1.4 deg and tapered off to be gone within the second. It didn't actually pull any timing. This was with stock knock sensor settings. I've been chasing that for weeks. Thanks for the help on that Vape.

I'll get another log later with spark advance on each cyl and see what effect I'm seeing with that table zero'd. I finally got all that ethanol out of my tank so can get back to dialing in the 93 tune. I think I'm about 95% there.

Another question I've come up with is in regards to the DD Torque Tables. These tables aren't smooth at all. I've smoothed them a bit and will log it later. What are you guys thoughts on smoothing these?

Stock:
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Base tune:
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Smoothed:
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