S550 Tuning Project - 6R80 Transmission Tuning - Understanding Definitions

Guys, I am new to tuning and would like some help with understanding the definitions of the settings within the transmissions Auto Shift Properties and Auto TCC tabs. I know there is a brief description within HP tuners software but its not detailed enough to understand the actual function and how a change can effect the transmission's and cars performance. Can someone explain the below and how it works? This would be very helpful information to all people using this software and tuning in general for these transmissions.

Just so you all know, I just bought a 2016 Mustang GT which will be heavily modified as a father and son project within the next year, but also a project for all of us here within this website to promote self tuning but to also promote HP Tuners. First, I plan on tuning this car from NA stock, then to NA bolt-on's (CAI, Headers, no cats, GT350 intake and 67mm TB, Stall, etc), then NA bolt-ons with Nitrous, and then to end with forced induction (Twin Turbos), all of which will be documented and shared freely to better educate all of us here. I figured before adding HP to the car, to start with the transmission first, see the performance changes with the tranny alone before adding HP. I have already read many threads, made many changes to the transmission tune based on suggestions within this forum which I have already seen gains with a simple stock motor, but I cannot finalize this until I understand more about what these settings do so the tune can be finalized and result published within. Anyhow, hopefully I can get some help from all of you here so we can all benefit. Thanks!!

To start:
Upshift Pressure Oncoming
Upshift Pressure Offgoing
Downshift Pressure Oncoming
Downshift Pressure Offgoing
Boost Pressure
Boost time
Ramp Rate
Ramp Rate Offgoing
Ramp rate Oncoming
Initial slip time
Overall slip time
Torque Transfer Time

TCC Map (How changing the slip and lock up time effect the transmission)
TCC Ramp
TCC Open Slip
Capacity Intercept
Speed Ratio
TCC Apply Delay

Bump. Also, any know how to add stroke pressure values per element?

Would like to know as well

Same here... I would purchase a good guide from someone that knows their way around tuning these transmissions. If someone does it I would also be interested in whether changes are safe on only Mustang weight vehicles or fine in an F150 as well.

I have been tuning my 2014 F150 Eco for about a year and messed with the trans quite a bit. I will describe below the way I understand these controls but I am not an expert. 2015+ is different than 11-14 also.


Upshift Pressure Oncoming - starting pressure before any adapts that controls how firmly the oncoming (next gear) clutch applies. Bump these to firm up your upshifts.

Upshift Pressure Offgoing - starting pressure before any adapts that controls how firmly the off going "current gear" clutch is held. Raise these if you develop any shift flair.

Downshift Pressure Oncoming - pressure that controls how firm the clutch applies during a downshift. I usually leave these alone.

Downshift Pressure Offgoing - pressure that control how firm the current gear is held during a downshift. I usually leave these alone as well.

Boost Pressure - Still not sure and never needed to change them.

Boost time - related to how long the boost pressure is applied. Never messed with it.

Ramp Rate - not sure what ramp rate you are referring to. Usually controls how quickly pressure is built or released. Raising ramp rates will make things happen faster. I bump my open loop oncoming ramp rates a little where WOT cells would apply.

Ramp Rate Offgoing - see above.

Ramp rate Oncoming - see above.

Initial slip time - target time for the initial application of the applying clutch.

Overall slip time - controls the overall application time of the applying clutch. I try to treat this as the sum of the initial tables and torque transfer tables although the math doesn't add up exactly. These tables are in milliseconds so something like 100 in a cell is not much time at all. You may have to lower the initial, torque transfer and overall slip times to achieve and keep firmer shifts.

Torque Transfer Time - time it takes to transfer torque from one clutch to the next completing the shift.

TCC Map (How changing the slip and lock up time effect the transmission) this table determines when the converter locks and unlocks. When you change shift points you sometimes have to change the lock up schedule.

TCC Ramp - controls how quickly the converter locks up

TCC Open Slip - the rpm the converter will slip while locked. Most set these to 0

Capacity Intercept - never messed with it.

Speed Ratio - the relation between engine rpm and input shaft speed. You will see 1.00 when the converter is locked and ".xx" when slipping.

TCC Apply Delay - usually a delay to lock the converter after an event such as an upshift. I lower these.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by R8Bill

Guys, I am new to tuning and would like some help with understanding the definitions of the settings within the transmissions Auto Shift Properties and Auto TCC tabs. I know there is a brief description within HP tuners software but its not detailed enough to understand the actual function and how a change can effect the transmission's and cars performance. Can someone explain the below and how it works? This would be very helpful information to all people using this software and tuning in general for these transmissions.

Just so you all know, I just bought a 2016 Mustang GT which will be heavily modified as a father and son project within the next year, but also a project for all of us here within this website to promote self tuning but to also promote HP Tuners. First, I plan on tuning this car from NA stock, then to NA bolt-on's (CAI, Headers, no cats, GT350 intake and 67mm TB, Stall, etc), then NA bolt-ons with Nitrous, and then to end with forced induction (Twin Turbos), all of which will be documented and shared freely to better educate all of us here. I figured before adding HP to the car, to start with the transmission first, see the performance changes with the tranny alone before adding HP. I have already read many threads, made many changes to the transmission tune based on suggestions within this forum which I have already seen gains with a simple stock motor, but I cannot finalize this until I understand more about what these settings do so the tune can be finalized and result published within. Anyhow, hopefully I can get some help from all of you here so we can all benefit. Thanks!!

To start:
Upshift Pressure Oncoming
Upshift Pressure Offgoing
Downshift Pressure Oncoming
Downshift Pressure Offgoing
Boost Pressure
Boost time
Ramp Rate
Ramp Rate Offgoing
Ramp rate Oncoming
Initial slip time
Overall slip time
Torque Transfer Time
TCC Map (How changing the slip and lock up time effect the transmission)
TCC Ramp
TCC Open Slip
Capacity Intercept
Speed Ratio
TCC Apply Delay

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Thanks for the time and effort you put into this reply!! :worship:

From what I have done and seen in my testing, increasing upshift pressure and shifting ramp rate is key to faster and hard shifting with torque management off. I am currently experimenting with the slip times at the track to see how this effects the times and MPH, hope to have this testing gone in the next month or two.

One thing I did not put on this list was the clutch fill time. I see it does affect the shifting RPM if changed i.e. if increased the shift will happen earlier or under your specified shift RPM. I was also told by a source that the clutch fill times must be increased higher than stock value if the torque management has been disabled as having it set too low would damage the clutch pack. The coyote cookbook manual says to decrease this to a low value, I believe to 0.200 if memory recalls however this I would not do this IMO. Most tunes I have seen increase this to around 0.7 or higher, still not sure how this actually works and would hope to hear from others on their knowledge and experiences with this and with changing other variables within the transmission settings. I was hoping Eric with HP Tuners would provide us with more details to these as it would make things easier for all of us newbies to tune our cars without worrying about destroying them, hint hint Eric. However, people make money selling tunes or tuning classes so I do not anticipate a lot of knowledge or secrets being shared which kinda sucks so we must learn the hard way. Thanks again for replying!!

To understand these terms you need to understand how the transmission works and what its doing for each shift. You have 6 clutches, 3 driven and 3 held. A,B,C,D,E, and a OWD clutch. A,B, and E are drive clutches. C,D, and OWD clutches are hold clutches.

Each gear is a combination of applied clutches to achieve a gear combination. A drive clutch routes torque from one gear to another while a hold clutch takes a gear out of the ratio.

1st gear starts with a and d applied at 3mph d is released as an offgoing(technically its the OWD clutch thats released but thats controlled by d)

2nd gear is a and c applied. on upshift there is no offgoing for this gear unless the shift is below 3mph, but boost pressure gets applied to a. The oncoming is c.

3rd gear is a and b applied. on upshift c is the offgoing and b is the oncoming

4th gear is a and e applied. on upshift b is offgoing and e in oncoming.

5th is b and e

6th is c and e

on downshifts the clutches(elements) are reversed for off going and on coming.

boost pressure is applied to offgoing clutches for load holding capacity purposes during shifts. This pressure increase takes time to build and is applied as a ramp rate.

Clutch fill times are the time it takes to fill the clutch with low pressure fluid upon its release. This completes the shift once achieved. the 1>2 clutch fill time is release of d

Every thing in the Adaptive tab is for increasing shift smoothness. there are two phases torque phase and an inertia phase. Boosting the pressure at the begging of the shift is the torque phase. Just before this is complete the pressure is lowered to reduce the inertia bump from the oncoming gear. initial slip time describes this point in the shift. Overall slip time describes how long the pressure drops for. The pressure is then built back up in the inertia phase. Torque transfer time describes how long this pressure takes to build. This tab can help you gain how hard of shift feel you want. Just make it fit to your boost time and clutch fill times.

Ive emailed support about adding these element pressures to the scanner. Its a key to getting faster shifts.

Thanks Murf!

Question-1: If torque management if off, would running a stock value or lower clutch fill time cause damage to the clutches? I was told it does and I noticed a lot of FI track cars are running higher clutch fill times like 0.7 or greater. The issue when running higher clutch fill times is that you have to adjust your OSS maps to get your shift RPM higher, example:

With a clutch fill time set to 0.55 on a WOT 1-2 shift, the oss was set to 1950 and we commanded a 7900RPM shift to get it to shift at 7500 which was our desired shift point.
With a clutch fill time set to 0.80 on a WOT 1-2 shift, the oss was set to 2038 and we commanded a 8500RPM shift to get it to shift at 7500 which was our desired shift point.

As you can see, the clutch time has a huge affect on the shift RPM, so if you want a 7500 RPM shift, you have to increase the OSS, the shift tables and also the limiters to get it to shift higher. If we knew the transmission clutches would hold up at lower fill times, then the commanded shift RPM would be closer to the actual shift RPM.

When comparing the S550 and S197 6R80 transmission tunes, there is a noticeable difference in clutch fill times with the new S550 times being shorter on a 1-2 and 2-3 shift:

7000 RPM 1-2, S550: 0.52 - S197: 0.6960
7000 RPM 2-3, S550: 0.52 - S197: 0.6320
7000 RPM 3-4, S550: 0.66 - S197: 0.7100

The Coyote cookbook say to keep the 1-2 fill time to stock (S197 value) of 0.6960 but to lower clutch fill times a lot on a 2-3 to 0.200 and 3-4 shift to 0.300. Do you think this would be too low and could burn up clutches?

Question-2: When upgrading your clutch system to say an Exedy stage 2 clutch pack, would you still need to run higher clutch fill times or can they be reduced?

Question-3: When comparing the S550 and S197 6R80 tunes, there is a noticeable difference in Boost times and slip and torque transfer times. Now, I have not played with these boost times nor do I know if it would have a significant impacted on shift times, but if the transmission is the same, would it be advisable for S197 transmission owners to use S550 values as Ford may have made the transmission tuning better, then modify accordingly to increase shift times i.e. shift pressures, etc.?

Murf,

There was a tune you posted on the repository for an S550 with 7200RPM shifting that you posted if you recall and there were a few things I was hoping you could tell us about the transmission AUTO TCC changes you made. What do these changes do and how do they increase transmission performance? Thanks!

Lock to Lock shift
Attachment 66605Attachment 66606

After Upshift:

Attachment 66607Attachment 66608

Added Capacity:
Attachment 66610Attachment 66611

Added Capacity non-shift:
Attachment 66612Attachment 66613

Step Change Capacity Non-shifting:
Attachment 66614Attachment 66615

Continued....

Step Change Capacity Shifting:
Attachment 66616Attachment 66617

Capacity Target Engagement:
Attachment 66618Attachment 66619

Hard Lock:
Attachment 66620Attachment 66621

Target slip:
Attachment 66623Attachment 66624

The shift is completing earlier than commanded because the clutch is filled. If you give it a second to complete and it completed in .1 seconds the shift is completed after .1 seconds fill time. If the RPM is 500 or 1000 lower than commanded it doesn't matter the gear has been changed. If gears are shifted sooner than commanded times need to be lowered. If not your times are fine. If you are getting flat spots in rpm from the offgoing clutch holding on after the shift times need to be raised.

Clutch full times are releasing the applied clutch. An after market clutch pack will hold more power in these flat spots. The stock clutches in these transmissions are great. Unless you are over 600ftlbs I wouldn't worry too much as long as you don't have really bad flat spots or flares.

Again boost times need to be long enough to meet boost pressure no longer or shorter. Longer will cause earlier than commanded shifts. Shorter will cause the RPM to flare past commanded shift point.

Slip and tq transfer times are different between s197 and s550 as Ford was probably making the shift feel more refined(soft) for world consumption. I have not really spent any time comparing them to draw a real conclusion.

The tune I posted was copied from the cobra jet file with minor tweaking.

I'll make another post on the TCC stuff later.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by murfie

The shift is completing earlier than commanded because the clutch is filled. If you give it a second to complete and it completed in .1 seconds the shift is completed after .1 seconds fill time. If the RPM is 500 or 1000 lower than commanded it doesn't matter the gear has been changed. If gears are shifted sooner than commanded times need to be lowered. If not your times are fine. If you are getting flat spots in rpm from the offgoing clutch holding on after the shift times need to be raised.

Clutch full times are releasing the applied clutch. An after market clutch pack will hold more power in these flat spots. The stock clutches in these transmissions are great. Unless you are over 600ftlbs I wouldn't worry too much as long as you don't have really bad flat spots or flares.

Again boost times need to be long enough to meet boost pressure no longer or shorter. Longer will cause earlier than commanded shifts. Shorter will cause the RPM to flare past commanded shift point.

Slip and tq transfer times are different between s197 and s550 as Ford was probably making the shift feel more refined(soft) for world consumption. I have not really spent any time comparing them to draw a real conclusion.

The tune I posted was copied from the cobra jet file with minor tweaking.

I'll make another post on the TCC stuff later.

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Any news on the TCC stuff Murfie?

Any advice on stall converter tuning too?

So the torque convertor is made up of four parts.

Impeller ( part physically attached to engine and drives fluid)
Turbine (part physically attached to input shaft and driven by fluid)
Reactor (Directs fluid from the turbine to the impeller to assist in torque multiplication, Stationary at low speeds, rotates at higher speeds)
TCC

The TCC is a 2 plate clutch. It has three states Apply/Release/ Modulate(slip). It can only be applied in 2nd- 6th. Pressure is removed from one side of the plate to apply the clutch. The bypass clutch control regulator valve controls the pressure and flow direction of transmission fluid to apply or release the clutch. The TCC solenoid controls the direction of this valve. Everything works off a pressure per torque @ RPM system. So higher rpm/ torque values usually mean more pressure away and the less the clutch is applied. So "0's" are fully applied. You'll notice some of the "1st gear" tables are full of "0s" which doesnt matter as the TCC does not apply in 1st.

Lock to lock shift: raised in the higher torque area to loosen convertor on all lock to lock shifts(basically all but 1-2, maybe 2-3)
After up shift: raised to have a looser converter feel after shift

Both of these are a rate at which the TCC applies. low applies faster high applies slower.

Added capacity during shift: raised to have TCC applied less during shift.
Added capacity non shift: Raised to have less TCC applied during accel and decel.

Maybe you can see a pattern for TCC tuning.

Step change capacity non shift, upshift, downshift: This modifies Torque values for better feel.

Capacity intercept: These are maximums(limits) based on temperature.

A lot of this is how the car feels to drive. Some of it can improve performance by allowing more torque multiplication.

For stock convertor you want to release the TCC some for performance. For higher stall you need to play with it to see where it feels good to drive while still getting the performance you got it for.

Murfie, Thank you so much for spending your time helping us understand more about this topic!!! :worship:

Any tuning suggestion when installing a stall converter, like a 2b or 2b? I have a 2b installed right now using stock settings, seems to work ok but would like to know if any changes need to be done to not hurt converter but to also increase 1/4 eta's

The tune I posted was copied from the cobra jet file with minor tweaking.

Do you still have this tune murfie

Can you repos

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elerico

The tune I posted was copied from the cobra jet file with minor tweaking.

Do you still have this tune murfie

Can you repos

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its in the repository

How are the tables for slip times, clutch fill times, torque transfer, and line pressure oriented? The axis aren't labeled in HPTuners and I'm just trying to focus on the WOT/high-torque regions. Would it be the lower right quadrant of each table?

Shift properties>Adaptive: It targets these shift times trying to keep engine RPM smooth to reduce harshness that the passengers may feel. You can cause solenoid DC to work too fast for the physical clutches, its all open loop so it doesnt correct its self.
Slip/ torque transfer times are TOT rows, and engine RPM columns.

Shift pressure>upshift/downshift: This is the solenoid duty cycle control based on torque input. You can command too little and not apply enough pressure to clutches, Or too much and waste time, efficiency, stress on parts. Again all open loop control.
Clutch fill times is turbine speed(input shaft).
Clutch tables are torque as rows, and turbine speed as columns.

You need to watch engine RPM, turbine speed, and OSS. Keep track of when and how much the TC is slipping(engine and TSS difference) and when clutches are slipping(Ratio of TSS to OSS compared to gear). Watch solenoid duty cycle, and their ramps closely and adjust so you have enough pressure to stop slip and flares, but not have excessive DC wasting shift time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by murfie

Slip/ torque transfer times are TOT rows, and engine RPM columns.

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Some say it's torque for rows?

Which are the clutch tables (not clutch fill)? Are solenoid duty cycles available PIDs?

oncoming and offgoing clutch tables for upshift and downshift pressure control.

There are solenoid "pressures" A,B,C, and D. E is only an on/off solenoid. In R,1,2,3 its off, in 4,5,6 its on. When E is on solenoid D controls pressure to the overdrive clutch instead of the low/reverse clutch.
Transmission range, input and ouput shaft speed, and temperature sensors are the only sensors in the transmission. no pressure sensors.
You also have a line pressure and torque converter clutch solenoids along with those 5 other solenoids.

Main line pressure will vary for shift feel, that is why its mostly tot and engine speed axis's are used in tables under shift properties. engine speed determines pump speed and fluid temperature is used to correct this into an estimated pressure. The line solenoid then reduces this pressure to the desired pressure. This makes the calibration very sensitive to the fluid fill level. It also makes your max and min pressures only effective if values are set inside of the actual range for the solenoid to control. Ramp rates and clutch fill times are there to make sure the clutches apply enough to hold and also not be in the middle of releasing.

Attachment 86967 Look at my 2-3 shift. Do you think the oncoming clutch is coming on to aggressively?

The challenge I face now on the 6F55 is mainly with the 1-2 and 2-3 up shifts. It takes too long on the 2-3 WOT and it seems like it hangs up holding onto the current gear too long. My Fusion Sport did this badly on the 1 to 2 as well but the Explorer is losing time with the 2 to 3. What settings do I need to focus on because murfie did a great job explaining how the clutches engaged or releases but an example of where to increase or decrease pressure would help me with the 2 to 3. And since the 6R80 followers the same element sequence, whatever works on the 6R80 ought to help with the 6F55

I had to perform some WOT shifting with the trans/engine not fully/entirely warmed up yet but it wasn't on purpose. This resulted in nailing the revlimiter after each WOT shift to the point it was hitting the fuel limiter each time.

I only touched the slip/torque transfer settings in the lower right quadrant. Based on murfie's description for TOT as rows and engine RPM as columns, I had previously only adjusted the warm/high trans temp settings. Does this mean I should adjust the slip/torque transfer settings for all the high RPM rows? Based on murfie's description for the oncoming/offgoing pressure tables, the rows are torque, and columns are turbine speed. How would I adjust these for better operation in cold temperatures?

Do I basically shorten slip and torque transfer times for all temp rows at high engine RPM?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by metroplex

I had to perform some WOT shifting with the trans/engine not fully/entirely warmed up yet but it wasn't on purpose. This resulted in nailing the revlimiter after each WOT shift to the point it was hitting the fuel limiter each time.

I only touched the slip/torque transfer settings in the lower right quadrant. Based on murfie's description for TOT as rows and engine RPM as columns, I had previously only adjusted the warm/high trans temp settings. Does this mean I should adjust the slip/torque transfer settings for all the high RPM rows? Based on murfie's description for the oncoming/offgoing pressure tables, the rows are torque, and columns are turbine speed. How would I adjust these for better operation in cold temperatures?

Do I basically shorten slip and torque transfer times for all temp rows at high engine RPM?

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So what ARE the axis values for adaptive tables?

There are 7 rows of torque is it: 0, 50, 100, 250, 300, 350, 400? and turbine rpm is 5 or 7 columns, like 1000, 2500, 4000, 5000, 6000 and 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000 ? lol .

We have been waiting for those parameters to be decrypted for yeas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by murfie

boost pressure is applied to offgoing clutches for load holding capacity purposes during shifts. This pressure increase takes time to build and is applied as a ramp rate.

Clutch fill times are the time it takes to fill the clutch with low pressure fluid upon its release. This completes the shift once achieved. the 1>2 clutch fill time is release of d

[...] there are two phases torque phase and an inertia phase. Boosting the pressure at the begging of the shift is the torque phase. Just before this is complete the pressure is lowered to reduce the inertia bump from the oncoming gear. initial slip time describes this point in the shift. Overall slip time describes how long the pressure drops for. The pressure is then built back up in the inertia phase. Torque transfer time describes how long this pressure takes to build. [...]

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I did some tuning years ago before the advent of torque-based transmissions. I've recently started tuning again and am trying to come up to speed on the new torque-based transmission models (specifically for now, a Ford 6F50). I understand the mechanics of the new transmissions, but am not completely clear on control of them. After many hours of scouring the Internet, I came across murfie's post excerpted above, which is the most comprehensible/succinct information I've found thus far (sorry for drudging up such an old thread). Would you guys be so kind as to fill in a few blanks and give a few clarifications?

"Just before this is complete the pressure is lowered to reduce the inertia bump from the oncoming gear." Does this mean that pressure is lowered to the offgoing clutch, to the oncoming clutch, or to both? And just before what is completed -- the overall torque phase, or the lowering of pressure?

"initial slip time describes this point in the shift." Is "initial slip time" a point in time when the slip begins to happen, or it it a measure of how long the slip lasts (I believe it's the former, but please correct me if I'm wrong).

"Overall slip time describes how long the pressure drops for." Does this mean that "overall slip time" is how long pressure takes to fall to a lower target pressure, like a ramp, or does it mean that "overall slip time" is how long pressure stays lowered after it has fallen to its target lower pressure?

"The pressure is then built back up in the inertia phase." This means that pressure is built back up for application only to the oncoming clutch, correct?


I want to clarify the above to make sure I'm tuning efficiently, but also for the following reason. In my 6F50 I've been able to achieve beautiful, firm, perfect (exactly as I want them) up/down shifts by simply shortening torque converter lock delay after shifts, increasing torque converter lockup rates after shifts, and shortening target overall slip times for each possible up/down shift -- without modifying any initial slip time or torque transfer time values at all. However, after reading murfie's explanation, I'm wondering if I may be putting unnecessary strain/wear on my transmission (particularly on friction materials) by, for example, trying to fully apply oncoming clutches while offgoing clutches are still firmly held (even though I'm not getting any flare or RPM flat spots, I'm still worried that I may not be handling the shifts in a manner that is safest for my transmission).

Thanks in advance!

Hello all!

I have a Fusion Titanium 2.0 Ecoboost AWD 2013 which have a very annoying shift delay (shift lag) specifically from 2nd to 3rd on high engine load and when the trans is cold. Im an Electronic Engineer who works with hardware/software development for Industrial Control, so i decided to make some investigation. Based on the data observed using a hobbyist scanner (USB + Forscan), it seems that lag comes from the way that the PCM is driving the solenoids on this specific situation (trans cold, medium/high load). So, i decided to look for advanced information about how the PCM controls the transmission and found this forum. Hope i can get some ideas...

So, i monitored the SHFT_LAG PID with a scanner and for this specific gear change (2-3) i see values up to 1800ms when the trans is cold (fluid between 25 and 50 celsius), while on other gear changes i see it between 500 and 800ms).

After the trans is warm (running for about 30 to 40 min, where the fluid reaches around 90 celsius), this lag reduces to around 900ms. On light engine load situation, independently if the trans is cold or warm, the shift lag measured by the PCM stays around 500ms.

I already replaced the whole valve body (solenoid body + main control) and it didnt change. So, I checked with the scanner the control signals of solenoids SSA/B/C/D comparing both scenarions and observed that, on high-lag situation, the change of control signals of SSB/C (both turn off from 2nd to 3rd) occurs is a much slower ramp (around 2000ms to complete) compared to the low-lag situation where the 2-3 shift takes only 1000ms to complete.

I see two possibilities:

1) PCM software is crap

2) PCM may be receiving incorrect data from some sensor, which makes it to take the wrong decision about how to drive the solenoids on that situation.


I would appreciate any ideas of how to proceed with the investigation.

Kind regards!

Well this is tune-able to say the least. Post your stock file.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by veeefour

Well this is tune-able to say the least. Post your stock file.

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Hello veefour, thank you. Actually i dont have the stock file yet. Im still deciding if i invest on purchasing a MPVI and credits to tune it, because im not sure if tuning will solve my problem.

Initially i suspected that the cause of this 2-3 lag was a mechanical problem on valve body (either on solenoid body or on the main control), specially due the history of known problems reported on the internet for this part of 6F35. So, i replaced the whole valve body by a factory/original brand new one... and, for my surprise, it didnt solve this lag of 2-3 shift. It remained identical.

After this, i decided to check (with a cheap OBD scanner) how the PCM was driving the solenoids, specially looking how it would change the solenoid state when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. As i described on previous post, on this specific 2-3 shift, the PCM turns off the solenoids B and C. What i observed is that, when the trans is cold (fluid around 40?C lets say), the PCM performs a very slow ramp on the PWM signal of these two solenoids (the ramp makes a stop-by around 50%, and takes almost 2000ms to complete). In other hand, when the trans is hot (95?C lets say), this ramp is much faster, taking around 1000ms to complete). Its hard to believe that the PCM calibration was designed this way, with a 2-3 shift being slower than other upshifts by design...

Anyway, i downloaded a hpt file of the same car (Fusion 2.0 Ecoboost AWD 2013) from another post, opened it on VCM editor and explored the Trans section. On shift properties tab, the only parameters that seems dependent on TOT (temperature) are Boost Pressure and Boost Time. The first have the same values along the temperature range. The second do varies with temperature, but not as exagerated to justify a shift lag reducing from 2000ms to 1000ms with temperature variation.

I see that a lot of transmission tables are based on Torque measurement, but i could not find this PID to monitor it on the OBD scanner. Do you know how can i monitor it?

I have attached this hpt file here if you want to take a look. Attachment 123920

Thank you!