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I think I can answer that.Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJDubbs
I redid my changes. In my efforts to have smooth transitions, I smoothed my changes. I did not realize that it warped the WHOLE map... Not just the changed area.
So... Smoothing maps.. not just for the changed area!! Noted!!
Thanks for the clues!
KS
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJDubbs
That was right after tightening wg crack pressure. on the production tune. I am going to loosen the wastegate tension one turn then log with this file a few times to get a good baseline from that. After that they reloaded my folder with my beta tune that ran much better than the current tune so i am going to flash that and see what it does. Will get you logs of that which i expect to look better. Then will buy credits and try your base file.
Edit: oh requested boost is 22.5 but you cant see that bc we are still waiting for HPT to update the pids. when i was on my previous tune was boosting a little over 23-24 psi, maf was maxing 2 330 and timing was at 9?. when i reflashed was only getting 18 psi, maf in 260s and 3? of advance. I set preload to 9 psi and that is what it is boosting at now. going to loosen preload by 1 turn and see what it does.
Sounds like a solid plan, but I would leave the gate a bit tight ;) we can always tweak the WGDC maps if it’s too much :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bb-tt
what is your layout? going to try and loosen the wg preload this weekend if i get a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJDubbs
Sent pm, loosened wg 1 turn and took some logs
Took 3 quick logs with Tylers layout. (not trying to hijack your thread Botb, will start a new thread if you want me too just thought we have similar set ups for comparison)
Attachment 101031
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yea lets start your own thread so we can see your Stock .HPT and some logs all in one place :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bb-tt
Hey Ya'All!
It's been a few days since anything post worthy has happened. Let me tell you why....
So the other day, with Tyler's guidance, we're trying a new tune. I added a Snow Meth Injection System and the results were surprising!!! Talk about smooth boost... and intake temps!?!?! It was 96 outside but I was getting low 50s in the intake! Yeah!:yay:
I'm putting over to the GF's house and decide to launch from a stop sign. About the top of 3rd, I feel something odd and get out of it. It seems to drive OK, but it sounds a little odd. After dinner, I limp it home and notice that it's got a very noticeable lumpy idle and it is way down on power till it hits boost. I know hurt something.... but what.
New K04 sounds OK. Motor revs, but it stumbles till it gets over 2500 then it cleans up. So I develop a list of things to check... Injectors, Valves, Lifters, Cams, Pistons.
Valves are easy.... A quick check shows 195 across all 4. Good! Valves and rings are probably safe.
Injectors are not as easy, but they are second up since it doesn't require me opening the block. A new set is installed, since it feels like one might not be flowing properly, and low and behold.... Nada. No change. Hmmmmm
The other sign of impending doom was that there was a massive lifter knocking when I started it after 2 weeks of sitting. At least one lifter was totally down. It took 20 agonizing seconds for it to sound somewhat normal and even then the idle was still lumpy. Oh... I am so not happy right now!!!
So I start pulling the covers I can (PCV and Upper Timing) to see what I can see inside the block. As I am turning over the motor I hear some very odd noises... like squishing coming from under the Cam Cover somewhere. Additionally, I can see one exhaust lifter looks far more compressed than other ones. Hmmmmm Maybe that's it? Bad lifters?
As I am turning it over by hand, something really odd happened... the timing chain popped a tooth or two (it all happened so fast I couldn't count!) and #2 piston stopped on it's valves!!! Well... that might help explain it being down on power till 2500. Appears the ECU was keeping it alive on the drive home by modifying the timing and cams!
So... it appears I have a Chicken or Egg question. Did the chain tensioner (which I can easily compress by hand) let the chain slip which damaged the lifters or did the stars align and the loose lifters (there were 3 total... 2 on one pot!) slam the tensioner and damage it? Cam bearings and lifter rollers show no signs of oil starvation, so it's not likely that was the root cause (I already removed the infamous Check Valve Screen during the rebuild last round!).
No matter which way it happened, I was extremely lucky. Not one piston was tagged or valve bent! Whew!! :pray:
So, despite doing a complete rebuild 30k miles ago, I am getting back into the topside of the block again. A complete set of lifters and an upgrade to ARP head studs appear to be my penance for my exuberant launch and high RPM fun!
I could have been worse!
Cheers!
Ken
Normal Intake Lifter... Compressed Exhaust Lifter. The ones cocked to the side are bad... so 2 on one piston!!!
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So luckily no Cam damage!
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On a side note....
You hear a lot of claims about some products relating to cars and performance. Some true... some wild... some just stupid!
So, since I do Cerakoting (Ceramic Coating) for a side biz, I tried their Anti-Detonation Piston Coating when I rebuilt the motor, now going on 30k ago. I thought I'd take a minute to share thoughts and findings!
When I checked the motor at about 1k miles after the rebuild, a scope in the pistons showed nothing but black piston tops and I figured it wasn't the worst waste of $$ I ever did....
But with the head off again, I took a much closer look and was pleasantly surprised. It appears that both the piston and chamber coating are completely intact and look to have done their job nicely.
There was some carbon build-up on both, but some light rubbing with a rag removed a large portion of it and it wouldn't take a lot to have a completely clean combustion chamber again.
A little light rubbing and my coating is right there and undamaged. A few minutes later, all 4 look great and the steam cleaning of the meth injection should take care of the rest!
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The head was Koted as well, including the valves. Other than some typical hard build-up on the valves, it didn't take much to clean it off.
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This is just my journey and your mileage may vary, but if it came to building a high Hp motor, I would suggest Cerakoting the pistons and head for an increased margin of safety!
Cheers!
Ken
For the Number Porn guys....
This is the log (Whoops) I just happen to be taking when the timing chain skipped a tooth! The "fun" started at 19:00:48. I launched it and you can see the gear shifts till 3rd when I got out of it and let it coast down. I had to drive about a mile to my GF house and that's what the rest of it is.
The 2nd is the drive home. About 10 miles and all low RPM and limited boost.
If anyone can look at them and tell what it's doing and when, given I know what actually happened, I'd love the tutorial. I see the log but I'm still learning how to read the detail of it.
Enjoy the number porn!!!
Ken
Oh man... these engines are notorious for timing chain tensioner failures... were you aware of that? Had the tensioner ever been replaced? I'm guessing probably not. You can read all about that ugliness here: https://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ight=tensionerQuote:
Originally Posted by Botbasher
As far as the collapsed lifters, I don't know many details about this but apparently there's a screen in the cam bridge (the piece that goes across the front of the two cams) that can come loose and in certain cases can block oil flow to certain parts of the head. I'm wondering if that might be the case with your engine? I couldn't find a good "all in one place" thread about it, but if you go to the Audizine B8 A4 forum and search for "cam bridge" or "screen" you'll see a lot of discussion about this issue.
Yeah ELaw... I might have heard about that once or twice! This was almost 2 years ago to the day! Check the top of the thread for all the gory pics!Quote:
Originally Posted by ELaw
Attachment 101824
I did a complete rebuild... from the crank up... to combat the oil consumption issues and while I was in I removed the screen to it'd never be an issue again! Current generation rings, tensioners and guides were all used. So all know issues were addressed and hopefully eliminated!
I get that the tensioner might have gone bad again... sigh... just my luck, but that doesn't explain 3 random lifters failing. There's nothing visual to explain their failure. No bearing scars or scoring around them. The one was first in line from the oil supply and the others were mid-line, so again, little logic to the seemingly random failure.
I'm just chalking it up to dumb luck at this point... dropping the limiter by 500 and sending it!!!
We'll see how that works!
Cheers!
KS
Yeah... I might have seen this... :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by ELaw
When I pulled apart a 09 CC that tossed the chain, the first place I checked was the head and this was what I found!!
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When I pulled the bridge I found the screen was missing. I just happened to look into the head and found it sitting right there! Stupid lucky! :yay: Put the two beside each other to see just how much of it might be missing. None as far as I could see!
Not to say there wasn't some work to do... I got a free set of VR6 valves out of the deal! The straight one was simply turned to show how badly they were all bent!
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So my $1500 DOA car turned into a $5000 gold mine for a little work. Considering I had all the special tools from my Audi rebuild, it was a piece of cake! My nephew is now driving it and loves it!
Cheers!!
Ken
Yeah it's amazing all the stupid problems these engines have. They're great when they work but.... ugh.
I still haven't checked the screen on my '12 A4... need to find the time to do that. Then start worrying about timing chains, pistons/rings (for oil consumption), etc. But I did at least replace the chain tensioner!
Do you have a photo of your chain tensioner? I'm curious what rev it is.
'12 shouldn't have any issues with ring based oil consumption unless it was one of the earliest 12's and got an '11 motor. Now PCV based consumptions... oh hell yeah!Quote:
Originally Posted by ELaw
The tensioner is a Sefoter "T" revision. Thanks for the hint... I happened to get a spare when I did the rebuild (due to dirt in the packaging) and I just grabbed it off the desk, it's a "T" also but the thing that got me curious is that I can manipulate it exactly like the one I just took out of the car (firm hand pressure to compress), so I'm now more confident that it didn't have anything to do with the tensioner and I need to look elsewhere for my issue!
Maybe the check valve in the aforementioned cam bridge? Hmmmmm :shrug:
Thanks for the reminder!!
Ken
Maaaaan! That's rough!
Did you replace the chain during the first rebuild?
I don't think it's very likely that bad lifters could damage the chain tensioner but I've been wrong before...
I'm no expert on hydraulic lifters but assume that they go bad from abrasive wear, heat or a sudden impact if its not an oil pressure issue.
Are you logging wireless? Looks like the resolution is low compared to my logs or I'm just not used to look at other's logs :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Botbasher
And also I'm having a hard time finding the time stamp you refer to "19:00:48".
Can't really say I can draw any conclusions from your logs. Tried to compare to mine and maybe you have a bit more difference between desired and actual cam angle but might be nothing.
The check valve is only there in order not to drain the lifters when shutting off the engine right?
Correct, keeps oil up top when off... but if it gets clogged or falls apart, it can block the oil to the head. I saw no auxiliary damage up there, so that is HIGHLY unlikely.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexOlen
Typically clogged ports and physical damage are the leading cause of lifter failure. She's been fed full synthetic her whole life so clogging is not likely and there's not one sign of oil starvation anywhere up top, so oil starvation is just as unlikely!
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I think it's more that the stars aligned and poo-poo happened. I was spinning it fast and maybe bumped the limiter on a shift. :shrug: Who knows. I got no smoking guns to point at, so I'm just going to put her back together and see what happens! Drive her easy for a while till I feel good and then get back to tuning!
Yeah... apparently my tablet wasn't intended for hard labor and it's chugging along as fast as it can. It wasn't any better when it was connected directly. Tyler had the same complaint. I'm sourcing a laptop for the next rounds if I can't find a descent tablet. All my Apple buddies tossed their iPads at me and I just had to laugh. :rolleyes: What are you using? I don't mind buying a new one... but not knowing if it'll serve the purpose kills me!
Cheers!
Ken
I don't know how to manipulate the logs within viewer... to save just the wanted parts... here's the bit though. Look along the bottom for the time. It's about 3/4 of the way through the log.Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexOlen
Attachment 101839
Cheers,
KS
Weird! When I open the log it looks as if you were going to dinner at 1am :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Botbasher
Might be different time zones or something messing it up.
Did you have a DTC before taking this log?
I have never logged "Distance since MIL clear (SAE)" so I don't know how it usually behaves.
Cheers,
Alex