2010 LMM tune getting slight smoke

So I know the diesel threads are kind of dead and I am fairly new to the diesel tuning. Some great reads out there. Anyway, has anyone experienced any smoke at all out of a 20/20 tune? This one has 50%btdc with 10% boost and 20% fuel. I've attached if anyone could take a look that has had more experience. I am thinking of adding another 5% boost to bring down EGTs which arent bad but, in efforts to help burn the fuel and clean up the smoke. Not looking for a race truck just a good clean tune. I am getting soot on my quarter panel (white truck). 5" straight, and EGR is still active. Truck was bone stock up til a month ago and had never smoked prior no matter how hard was on it, so fairly confident nothing is going wrong. Logs looked normal.

Thanks in advance to anyone can lend a hand hopefully.

Attached stock file for same truck. Thanks all in advance.

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Originally Posted by Stroked06Goat

So I know the diesel threads are kind of dead and I am fairly new to the diesel tuning. Some great reads out there. Anyway, has anyone experienced any smoke at all out of a 20/20 tune? This one has 50%btdc with 10% boost and 20% fuel. I've attached if anyone could take a look that has had more experience. I am thinking of adding another 5% boost to bring down EGTs which arent bad but, in efforts to help burn the fuel and clean up the smoke. Not looking for a race truck just a good clean tune. I am getting soot on my quarter panel (white truck). 5" straight, and EGR is still active. Truck was bone stock up til a month ago and had never smoked prior no matter how hard was on it, so fairly confident nothing is going wrong. Logs looked normal.

Thanks in advance to anyone can lend a hand hopefully.

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Do not use a 50/50 calculator, instead go back to stock and review stock timing values in it for some reference, negative/low timing can really help spool the turbo and make the truck drive and respond better. Another big no no IMO is changing your injector PW map right off the start, especially while being on stock injectors or before having maxed your torque based fuel map. Make fueling changes to your torque based fuel tables where you want more fuel/power, load it and see how it does then maybe change the timing some and see how that does. Once you've maxed those tables to 120mm3 and you still want more fuel then start changing the PW map, but only in the areas where you want/need more fuel.

Very very interesting. I like this approach better and this is some great information. It makes sense to me as well. One question with this method, can I assume the overall increase on fuel is (even loosely) related to the increase of horsepower? Again i am not making a race truck and is all stock components (including transmission with 200k) though has the 5" straight exhaust. Many thanks as well for your advice.

Attachment 104918

So here is a log. Did a little timing change I think i had a table mis-copied on the lo alt timing. Anyway, what am i missing on the main injection timing. Trying log timing in the cruise cells to see where its at, so i can start to clear up some smoke when i get into the throttle. Its fueling too much before it boosts. Any thoughts anyone? Still learning this diesel stuff. Thanks!

Sorry.... By 'what am i missing' is the values seem very low compared to the timing I am trying to throw at it. Is "Main Injector Timing" the wrong PID to be using? Overall seems to be logging well truck has great response. Just wanting clean up that smoke. EGT's are good (empty no trailer). Only towed a camper once with it and wasnt alarming so the tune overall seems be decent. Thanks all. Trying get a better handle on what i am looking at here.

Attachment 113356Attachment 113357

So I was able to revisit and do some adjustments. Thanks Jaeger for those thoughts. I applied much of that and the truck is much more responsive (though not sure about where you'd choose low/neg timing to encourage turbo spooling)..
I may pull the fueling back a bit as when i romp it does seem to smoke a bit more than i'd like. Before i had a slight transient puff. Love the throttle response though and is much more peppy down bottom. I've attached my current tune and a log. I need iron out my PIDS as for some reason they dropped half of them when opening in the latest version of HPT. Truck is running healthy and EGTS are reasonable with the added fuel with increasing torque based fuel... also upped my boost to combat EGT's. I can see 1350-1400 in short bursts WOT, but not horrible. 35-36lbs of boost. Overall feels decent, and has not yet limped (my goal as i want longevity).

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Originally Posted by Stroked06Goat

Attachment 113356Attachment 113357

So I was able to revisit and do some adjustments. Thanks Jaeger for those thoughts. I applied much of that and the truck is much more responsive (though not sure about where you'd choose low/neg timing to encourage turbo spooling)..
I may pull the fueling back a bit as when i romp it does seem to smoke a bit more than i'd like. Before i had a slight transient puff. Love the throttle response though and is much more peppy down bottom. I've attached my current tune and a log. I need iron out my PIDS as for some reason they dropped half of them when opening in the latest version of HPT. Truck is running healthy and EGTS are reasonable with the added fuel with increasing torque based fuel... also upped my boost to combat EGT's. I can see 1350-1400 in short bursts WOT, but not horrible. 35-36lbs of boost. Overall feels decent, and has not yet limped (my goal as i want longevity).

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There is a lot wrong IMO with how you're adding fuel, you've only added to the PW table and you've added nothing to the torque table. If you reset your PW table and rescale it, you'll find smoke control is easily manageable by making adjustments to the lambda smoke limiter table. Response comes from more fuel and sometimes timing but with that comes smoke, it's a fine line we always ride. Re-scale the injector PW table, which i have done in this tune posted below, and added to your torque fuel map which i've also already done. This tune is possibly a smaller amount of fuel being commanded than your current tune on the big end, but i'd also have to see a data log to see what your truck is actually doing. As for low/negative timing review your stock map. You'll want to wait longer to add a bunch of timing and then ramp it in quickly. A timing calc would not like the looks of well tuned timing map but trust me, they are more for big end WOT stuff and even then they don't account for injector dead time at all. The changes i made in this tune are basic/rough so you can see the areas i'm talking about. Each truck is a little different and each truck will like slightly different values. I typically remove lambda limiters and then build my fuel map to where it's almost clean naturally and then start adding the limiters back to clean it up the rest of the way. Finally i'll add back 2-4% more fuel over those areas which won't see the light of day unless there is higher airflow in that area which will allow it to make more power and keep it clean. But this only works well if your MAF and PW tables are actually accurate, which is why i put a big emphases on keeping PW maps and MAF curves accurate. Look at the "Default low ALT Lo Timing map that's where i want you see negative timing values. Attachment 113622

I'll have to update my software to read your tune i'll get that done after work. Trying wrap my head about timing tables as you describe.

Are you looking at the latest tune ? I upped my max tq based fueling to 800, and smoothed some. The very first tune posted in this thread was incorrect. I had an ah ha moment when I realized my torque map didn't save/take or whatever. Ran longer than i care to admit with a stock torque table.

This is how it looks. I need do some data logging i have a deadspot at cruise @50-60% throttle (all fuel delayed boost). Transients feel great but know they can be improved substantially. But anything feels good compared to the stock.
Attachment 113623

I agree on ensuring MAF is calibrated correctly but I have not yet looked into where to grab err. Up until now I simply assumed being a stock air intake, delco filter...hoped factory was close in their maf mapping. (though have seen some off substantially). If airflow is off your chasing your tail.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stroked06Goat

I'll have to update my software to read your tune i'll get that done after work. Trying wrap my head about timing tables as you describe.

Are you looking at the latest tune ? I upped my max tq based fueling to 800, and smoothed some. The very first tune posted in this thread was incorrect. I had an ah ha moment when I realized my torque map didn't save/take or whatever. Ran longer than i care to admit with a stock torque table.

This is how it looks. I need do some data logging i have a deadspot at cruise @50-60% throttle (all fuel delayed boost). Transients feel great but know they can be improved substantially. But anything feels good compared to the stock.
Attachment 113623

I agree on ensuring MAF is calibrated correctly but I have not yet looked into where to grab err. Up until now I simply assumed being a stock air intake, delco filter...hoped factory was close in their maf mapping. (though have seen some off substantially). If airflow is off your chasing your tail.

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If you come from the gas world diesel tuning is very different as far as timing. They require little timing down low because the cylinder fill is a lot better relative to a gas engine and compression is a lot higher with a crappy fuel that like to burn. Also just FYI diesels don't have a throttle body to restrict airflow, it's only used for smoothing engine shutdowns and prioritizing EGR flow into the engine over outside air flow. So with that said the air is in the cylinder just waiting for fuel to make power. You increased power by asking for more torque, but that torque number you're requesting is linked to a fuel amount in your "torque to fuel map" and a timing amount in your timing map. Think of the map you changed as a fuel and timing limiting curve/map, we don't want the engine to just dump fuel and stick all the timing in at a low RPM, it's really a secondary layer/way to smooth allowed fuel and timing. If you maxed that table out kinda like you already did, you'll default to your torque to fuel map and timing map values before any other limiters are added, which is perfectly fine! I think they use that map to represent a final accurate torque request number that they can then later be used to limit the torque to prevent trans slipping or other part breaking issues quickly and easily, rather than changing the entire engine calibration for one little issue requiring a recertification by the EPA. Maybe someone else has a better explanation of that map but that's my take on it. Stock MAF curves are usually very good, just look at them as an airflow check. It goes "do we have airflow for this fuel amount"? Yes: let that amount into the engine, No: limit until X lambda is met. Some tuners even just max out the MAF to remove it as a limiter all together, not a good idea on a street truck IMO but good idea on a race truck to get rid of a potential limit.

So updated my timing tables, still working through understanding the idea there. Fueling changes i went with and gave it a go. Tail pipe is dang clean!

Got thinking more about how it works overall. SO as you guessed i am used to gasser. open up the PW longer, get more fuel. But Diesel systems are different, they are fueled on mm3 fuel volume. So it will request the proper torque, but you need to up the fuel in that cell to deliver that torque otherwise you are limited simply by your torque fueling map. So my question is.... what is the benefit of the larger PW if you are not limiting out your volume to the cylinder? Or is that the only benefit? Upping the torque based fueling definitely made for a much smoother cleaner power, seemed a bit delayed when at speed though. I admit though, i am on stock transmission shifting and it may be relearning to the power.

What is the issue with the VCM Scanner! i've had disappearing PIDS in the past on my GTO here and there..... but on this LMM its driving me crazy. I had to literally stop 4 times today while scanning each time losing another pid. Each one i delete and reinstall and its good, then lost a different one. Delete, re install and lost the one i had just reinstalled. Then i lost like 4 at once.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stroked06Goat

So updated my timing tables, still working through understanding the idea there. Fueling changes i went with and gave it a go. Tail pipe is dang clean!

Got thinking more about how it works overall. SO as you guessed i am used to gasser. open up the PW longer, get more fuel. But Diesel systems are different, they are fueled on mm3 fuel volume. So it will request the proper torque, but you need to up the fuel in that cell to deliver that torque otherwise you are limited simply by your torque fueling map. So my question is.... what is the benefit of the larger PW if you are not limiting out your volume to the cylinder? Or is that the only benefit? Upping the torque based fueling definitely made for a much smoother cleaner power, seemed a bit delayed when at speed though. I admit though, i am on stock transmission shifting and it may be relearning to the power.

What is the issue with the VCM Scanner! i've had disappearing PIDS in the past on my GTO here and there..... but on this LMM its driving me crazy. I had to literally stop 4 times today while scanning each time losing another pid. Each one i delete and reinstall and its good, then lost a different one. Delete, re install and lost the one i had just reinstalled. Then i lost like 4 at once.

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The power is delayed more at speed now because the total fuel amount in MM3/injector PW is less because it's now limiting the actual lambda allowed to prevent smoke and thus a shorter PW is being delivered. By you adding time in the PW table areas, you threw off calculated fuel amount and calculated lambda which is why it was smoking. How ever a smoking truck will make more power just like going below 14.7 in a gas will yield more power. Diesel's will smoke around 18.0 AFR far from stoich. I suggest you start messing with your lambda smoke limiter map in the areas you feel it's weaker "to allow more MM3/longer PW" and log the torque/fuel amount being commanded. if the desired torque amount in map 13110 isn't being met based on pedal position and RPM then lambda limiting is in effect limiting allowed torque/MM3/PW. IF that's NOT the case and you are getting that torque amount in map 13110 then start adding more MM3 at that specific torque number in your torque based fuel map which in turn will ask for more PW, or request more torque in that same area which will again add more PW. Which one you choose to do that part is up to you But i recommend adding MM3 in your torque based fuel map until you run against your lambda limiter or start smoking if you've moved your lambda limiter far enough way to allow smoke. You determine what MM3/fuel volume is desired to make X torque before any lambda limiting comes into effect. If you request too much it'll smoke, too little it'll be less torque/power. The request looks like this, X torque requested = X MM3, which will then revert to the PW map and see that X mm3 at this current fuel pressure we require X injector PW. injector PW is fuel volume, that's why the PW map is pressure Rows and MM3 columns and time inside the map. if you alter the PW table like you did, by adding injector open time you altered the actual amount of fuel in mm3 going in, which was/is very accurate in stock form. Let's say the truck thinks it's spraying 55mm3 of fuel, accurate on stock PW map, but since you increased injector PW/open time at that 55mm3 it's actually spraying more like 65mm3 "just a guess". The truck doesn't know it's spraying more or that the table is now inaccurate, it honestly doesn't matter except for the fact that you're smoking and now can't accurately control lambda based on a actual lambda number. It's like taking a gas engine, grabbing the once accurate MAF curve and adding 10%, now the car is 10% richer everywhere, but instead of fixing the maf curve you just go into your desired AFR table and take away 10%, now the car runs exactly the same except the actual AFR vs commanded AFR is 10% off. You're asking if the PW matters, not until the car/truck tries to make fueling corrections later on down the road, it'll be 10% or X% off based on how much you've fudged the PW table numbers.

My truck simply will not log engine torque. There are multiple channels I've tried and none populate. Effectively, i should be able to log my volumetric flow rate though which is working...and compare it to what the tune should be requesting. If vol flow rate is under requested then its limited id think..by lambda or i guess could be one the other limiting tables there's a half dozen or so. Wonder if its worth emailing HP support on the torque logging?