HP tuners did me dirty on my first time bricked on very first flash

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Originally Posted by DanN

Then I'm confused; why do some get the brickable warning and others not? And why would 5FDP (great concert, BTW) claim it's a known issue?

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I can't remember if fords have a brickable warning or not but they are almost impossible to brick, same with late model GM ecm's. Personally I've done thousands of flashes over the years to probably 50 or so vehicles and have never had one brick and thats with vehicles that had wiring issues and inline modules, sometimes you just get unlucky with a vehicle.

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Originally Posted by dann

then i'm confused; why do some get the brickable warning and others not? And why would 5fdp (great concert, btw) claim it's a known issue?

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its a known issue that if you flash 03-07 gms for the most part with aftermarket accessories, you are going to have to do some walk arounds to get it to flash correctly. Also there is no set in stone fix, sometimes you just pull radio fuse, sometimes you have to remove module and radio. Also these trucks are prone to cluster failure, that can cloud the communication circuit. Sometimes disabling high speed write works, other times it does not.

There is no write up about it, because there is no one fix for it. There are countless threads all over the internet about flashing these, whether with a tuner, or using factory software to flash a factory cal.

Sometimes the only fix is to flash on a bench, which is a pain, if you are making many adjustments, but thats only on rare occasions.

Unfortunately if you had researched as much before flashing, as you did after flashing, this likely wouldnt have occured

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Originally Posted by DSteck

This thread is stupid. Aside from being written like a child, it screams "I shouldn't have any accountability for anything I do". HPT is not responsible for keeping up with all the BS that aftermarket equipment can cause. Editing a vehicle module isn't really for a novice despite how easy it is to get equipment to do it.

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You broke your yearly posting record Dave, LOL!!

As for the rest. Real simple use at your own risk. HPT nice work to attempt to help someone. You have always supported your product even as complex as it has become.

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Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

Isn't that what the user help forum is for? To share information? Sorry, we cannot keep up with these oddball devices that are plugged inline to the vehicles wiring and expect us to self document it. Just assume that if you've screwed with the wiring you could run into issues.

Additionally the OP wouldn't have run into issues if he had done write cal only like he should have and this whole thread would be a mute point.

Honestly I didn't even know about this inline module that was mentioned earlier in the thread but if someone were to post a link to the device or a picture of it I would be happy to make a sticky about it. I've stickied hundreds of threads over the years(that even the support staff references) but we still get the same questions asked thousands of times a year so whether the stickies actually work is a whole nother issue.

So with all that said if you've got an older GM and don't know the wiring history of the vehicle do write cal only like the help file states ;)

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whats the resolution when datalogging? 35/sec? what is the max number of items you can log? where is the change log? will there ever be an eta for the pro features promised and paid for? the stickies are a last ditch effort...the support should be on your site.....the help file is a start.....but it is extremely outdated and sparse.

now i do appreciate your rapid responses and being active on the forums. i understand its complex and hectic. thanks for making this product and its software.

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Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

Additionally the OP wouldn't have run into issues if he had done write cal only like he should have and this whole thread would be a mute point.)

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I would have only used write cal, if the software was smart enough to track the changes and notify me of the correct write mode...like it should have. With the different writes, all we are talking about is what sectors of the flash are being written. Right? You have to know all the byte positions anyways to even be able to change parameters in the first place, so add a function that checks the byte position of the changed variables and then compare that to the area defined by each of the different write modes and set a flag that informs the user which type of write is required to commit the changes made since the last write.

I'm sure your devs know what github is and understand the concept of change tracking and how valuable it is.

What's worse is that you have a directly MISLEADING write mode that does not apply to a HUGE number of vehicles, the option "Write VIN/tunerlock/VATS" should NEVER contain a key word like "VATS" when it is not applicable to the model/year being tuned.

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Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

Honestly I didn't even know about this inline module that was mentioned earlier in the thread but if someone were to post a link to the device or a picture of it I would be happy to make a sticky about it. I've stickied hundreds of threads over the years(that even the support staff references) but we still get the same questions asked thousands of times a year so whether the stickies actually work is a whole nother issue.

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Here is the exact device I have in my tahoe: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Contrary to what some of the replies on here might suggest, I'm not just here to bitch and moan, I want to see good software made better and I'm willing to provide as much detail as I can to help with that!

Anything outside of buying/installing OEM parts comes with huge risks. Tuning is a big one. Honestly without HP Tuners a lot of "do it yourselfers" wouldn't be tuning. Why, HP Tuners is the cheapest option out there with the most information on the internet. For the money the end user gets access to a lot. A lot of those things come with risks. I can understand feeling blind sighted over having to buy extra licenses and bricking your computer however it happens. Sure if you buy a preloaded handheld tuner from another company the owners manual have specific warnings/instructions over these year GM trucks however it's very little and most people won't even notice it until it's too late. There are things HP Tuners warns users about and the other companies don't. It's aftermarket and their is a lot of unknowns.

I bricked a P59 computer for the first time earlier this year. Never have before in the past. This computer bricked during a "write calibration" not a "write entire" and even had the stock radio so anything is possible. The crazy thing about that vehicle is that I wrote two other tunes to it just fine before it went heels to Jesus. I worked with HPT support and they were nice to work with. Ultimately the computer was not recoverable however they were responsive and helped the best they could. The computer died most likely from the remanufactured ICU and corrosion on the PCM connector data pin. Wouldn't have even known the truck had a reman ICU if HPT didn't tell me that the ICU was making a lot of noise in the data line LOL. For what we pay we cannot expect the red carpet when it comes to support. If we do and HP Tuners accommodates, they will have to spend more time in customer resolution. That is more resources taken away from disassembling PCM's and more money everyone will have to pay to tune their vehicles. Tuning has a ton of unknown variables and things can go wrong quickly whether it's self inflicted, random, software, wiring, etc.

On the comment about the help files. I wanted to give some feedback on that as I'm a former customer to two other tuning companies and a current customer to another. They all have very outdated help files LOL.

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Originally Posted by mbray01

its a known issue that if you flash 03-07 gms for the most part with aftermarket accessories, you are going to have to do some walk arounds to get it to flash correctly. Also there is no set in stone fix, sometimes you just pull radio fuse, sometimes you have to remove module and radio. Also these trucks are prone to cluster failure, that can cloud the communication circuit. Sometimes disabling high speed write works, other times it does not.

There is no write up about it, because there is no one fix for it. There are countless threads all over the internet about flashing these, whether with a tuner, or using factory software to flash a factory cal.

Sometimes the only fix is to flash on a bench, which is a pain, if you are making many adjustments, but thats only on rare occasions.

Unfortunately if you had researched as much before flashing, as you did after flashing, this likely wouldnt have occured

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Your crappy elitist attitude would be expected if this happened while using some free and unsupported software, but this is something that we pay for because we don't want to put up with all the BS! You are also making the assumption that I would have found this issue if I spent 2 days and over 16 hours sitting in front of a computer googling crap. In my entire weekend after the fact, I never read anything about this problem until someone replied to this post.

Get off your high horse, you are not impressing anyone right now.

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Originally Posted by momotunes

Anything outside of buying/installing OEM parts comes with huge risks. Tuning is a big one. Honestly without HP Tuners a lot of "do it yourselfers" wouldn't be tuning. Why, HP Tuners is the cheapest option out there with the most information on the internet. For the money the end user gets access to a lot. A lot of those things come with risks. I can understand feeling blind sighted over having to buy extra licenses and bricking your computer however it happens. Sure if you buy a preloaded handheld tuner from another company the owners manual have specific warnings/instructions over these year GM trucks however it's very little and most people won't even notice it until it's too late. There are things HP Tuners warns users about and the other companies don't. It's aftermarket and their is a lot of unknowns.

I bricked a P59 computer for the first time earlier this year. Never have before in the past. This computer bricked during a "write calibration" not a "write entire" and even had the stock radio so anything is possible. The crazy thing about that vehicle is that I wrote two other tunes to it just fine before it went heels to Jesus. I worked with HPT support and they were nice to work with. Ultimately the computer was not recoverable however they were responsive and helped the best they could. The computer died most likely from the remanufactured ICU and corrosion on the PCM connector data pin. Wouldn't have even known the truck had a reman ICU if HPT didn't tell me that the ICU was making a lot of noise in the data line LOL. For what we pay we cannot expect the red carpet when it comes to support. If we do and HP Tuners accommodates, they will have to spend more time in customer resolution. That is more resources taken away from disassembling PCM's and more money everyone will have to pay to tune their vehicles. Tuning has a ton of unknown variables and things can go wrong quickly whether it's self inflicted, random, software, wiring, etc.

On the comment about the help files. I wanted to give some feedback on that as I'm a former customer to two other tuning companies and a current customer to another. They all have very outdated help files LOL.

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Cheapest? Have you heard of pcm hammer and tunerpro? LOL

What bugs me and probably triggered this rant was finding out that the license is locked to the MPVI, locked to the file, locked to the PCM OS version AND locked to the PCM serial number. That is really over-bearing, lock it to the PCM serial number and NOTHING else. Or at least add a feature to export the raw .BIN flash contents so we at least have a fighting chance at reloading it onto a bricked PCM using a JTAG/BDM adapter.

Even if I do manage to unbrick it when my BDM adapter comes, I'll have to use someone else's bin and it will probably be a different OS version, all because I can't export a bin from vcx editor. Then I'll have to fight to use the license on the same physical device that was originally and already licensed.

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Originally Posted by DanN

HPtuners puts up warnings for some ECUs that are "known brickable", so there is some known distinction; I don't think it's too much to ask HPtuners to explain what that distinction is, and make it known before purchase (IE, in the supported vehicles list). If the recommendation has to be "program with bench harness only", so be it - but tell us that up front.

In my experience so far, I've found the software and hardware to be excellent, but finding information to be a little like pulling teeth. Even the online help doesn't seem to really apply to the MPVI2.

I am sure that HPtuners will do right by dragonsmoke6, whether it be by crediting back, refunding or de-bricking... but it would serve them much better to avoid that on the front end rather than coming from behind to fix things. Sounds to me like dragonsmoke6 would have been capable and happy to build the bench harness first if it was clear that was the safe way to go with his particular ECU.

I am the product support supervisor for a company that builds specialized electronic and mechanical parts and systems for vehicles in the $300k - $3M USD range. It doesn't matter how good our products are, eventually we will build a bad one; at that point what's important is how we support it.

HPtuners has a GREAT product, but the support structure is a bit of a mess. I'm happy with the product I purchased and even enjoy using it.. I just wish finding the right information was a little easier.

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Absolutely! I'm having a blast tweaking all the settings on my truck and seeing how it affects the way it drives, now that I have it running with another PCM. It's great when it works, but will ruin your week and wallet if it fails! I'm still out an extra $100 that I had to spend on the 2nd PCM to be able to tune it, I put in a support ticket yesterday and I'm still waiting to find out if they will give me back my credits. Because right now, that $100 is sitting in a void in the electronic ether where the spirits of dead PCMs go to rest.

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Originally Posted by dragonsmoke6

Absolutely! I'm having a blast tweaking all the settings on my truck and seeing how it affects the way it drives, now that I have it running with another PCM. It's great when it works, but will ruin your week and wallet if it fails! I'm still out an extra $100 that I had to spend on the 2nd PCM to be able to tune it, I put in a support ticket yesterday and I'm still waiting to find out if they will give me back my credits. Because right now, that $100 is sitting in a void in the electronic ether where the spirits of dead PCMs go to rest.

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Whats your ticket number?

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Originally Posted by dragonsmoke6

Cheapest? Have you heard of pcm hammer and tunerpro? LOL

What bugs me and probably triggered this rant was finding out that the license is locked to the MPVI, locked to the file, locked to the PCM OS version AND locked to the PCM serial number. That is really over-bearing, lock it to the PCM serial number and NOTHING else. Or at least add a feature to export the raw .BIN flash contents so we at least have a fighting chance at reloading it onto a bricked PCM using a JTAG/BDM adapter.

Even if I do manage to unbrick it when my BDM adapter comes, I'll have to use someone else's bin and it will probably be a different OS version, all because I can't export a bin from vcx editor. Then I'll have to fight to use the license on the same physical device that was originally and already licensed.

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Yes I've heard of PCM Hammer and Tunerpro. Both have less support than anyone else and less warnings. You need to a definition file for tunerpro. Most of those are created by other people and it can be a gamble if it's right or not. PCM hammer is still in development and only supports two PCM's. You are not going to find a tool like HP Tuners with as much functionality for the price.

HP Tuners does have a pop up when licensing your PCM. To me it's clear that flashing another file will cost more credits. If you read that and go to the help section it spells out how it works. When you go to apply the credits it gives another warning too. I get your frustration but its the risk.
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I wish they would support exporting the raw bin too. They most likely don't for their own protection or some other reason I don't understand. Most tuning software companies don't give you them either. End of the day they sell a product that unlocks your computer and lets you adjust parameters within their software so we can't get upset that we can't export the BIN because we didn't buy a tool that does that or is advertised as doing so. If I assumed it, I would have asked before purchasing.

Think about this. You buy a part, install it, and overtighten which ends up warping it/breaking it. You are upset that it didn't have a warning about this even though it listed a torque spec. You now are upset that they don't include their tooling jig so you can attempt to fix it. Really what you are arguing sounds exactly like that.

Not to be disrespectful however you are fighting a lost cause. If you plan on continuing tuning and end up explore other options you will end up changing your opinion and probably disagree with yourself and your original post. HPT can be an easy target to blame as they give a lot of access for the price which puts it within reach to a lot of people. This along with the other companies that offer similar products pretty much have zero information about how the software exactly works, the price is a lot higher, and their online forums are locked to people who are not customers.

I hope everything else goes smooth with your tuning. Once you start using it/grasp It you will have fun and quickly forget about the lost credit.

I discovered the chime adapter problem using Tunercat OBD2. But with that it wouldn't start the read so I never bricked anything writing. Cant write if you can't read. I would always start by pulling the radio and radio amp fuse. That would allow reading and writing on probably 99% of the problem chime adapters. The ones that that wouldn't fix I would either hook up my bench harness or have the customer pull the radio and unplug the adapter from the dash harness. That can be done on those vehicles in just a few minutes. And again not all the adapters are problematic. I program tons of 03-07 classics with A/M radios and chime adapters that don't have any issues as installed without pulling any fuses or disconnecting anything. I'd be more curious why HPT will read and then have issues writing on those vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

Whats your ticket number?

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227061

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Originally Posted by momotunes

Yes I've heard of PCM Hammer and Tunerpro. Both have less support than anyone else and less warnings. You need to a definition file for tunerpro. Most of those are created by other people and it can be a gamble if it's right or not. PCM hammer is still in development and only supports two PCM's. You are not going to find a tool like HP Tuners with as much functionality for the price.

HP Tuners does have a pop up when licensing your PCM. To me it's clear that flashing another file will cost more credits. If you read that and go to the help section it spells out how it works. When you go to apply the credits it gives another warning too. I get your frustration but its the risk.
Attachment 101100

I wish they would support exporting the raw bin too. They most likely don't for their own protection or some other reason I don't understand. Most tuning software companies don't give you them either. End of the day they sell a product that unlocks your computer and lets you adjust parameters within their software so we can't get upset that we can't export the BIN because we didn't buy a tool that does that or is advertised as doing so. If I assumed it, I would have asked before purchasing.

Think about this. You buy a part, install it, and overtighten which ends up warping it/breaking it. You are upset that it didn't have a warning about this even though it listed a torque spec. You now are upset that they don't include their tooling jig so you can attempt to fix it. Really what you are arguing sounds exactly like that.

Not to be disrespectful however you are fighting a lost cause. If you plan on continuing tuning and end up explore other options you will end up changing your opinion and probably disagree with yourself and your original post. HPT can be an easy target to blame as they give a lot of access for the price which puts it within reach to a lot of people. This along with the other companies that offer similar products pretty much have zero information about how the software exactly works, the price is a lot higher, and their online forums are locked to people who are not customers.

I hope everything else goes smooth with your tuning. Once you start using it/grasp It you will have fun and quickly forget about the lost credit.

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Honestly, with that wording, it should be locked to the VIN and not the PCM serial number, "License [...] for the vehicle".

What grinds my gears is the part about licensing the file, that is just stupid. Especially when you are not given any recovery options despite having the technical capability to get the 1's and the 0's restored to the PCM. They intentionally encrypt their .hpt format and hold your data hostage.

Give me a bin export and I'll shut up, till then, I'll continue to complain. It's my data for my PCM that I licensed and you are denying me the ability to recover my PCM and license even though there is a perfectly good way to do it from a technical standpoint.


Imagine if you bought a carburetor and put jets in it that were machined by another company, but if you want to install the factory jets again, the carburetor will now self-destruct, because.....licensing. Sounds pretty silly, right? Sound pretty shady, right? Are you against "The Right to Repair" movement? Because not allowing me to export a bin file sounds a lot like denying my "Right to Repair".

The only alternative if they won't let me export the bin, is to unlink the license, so after I flash a generic factory bin, I can re-link it to the same PCM. This would be possible if the license could be unlinked from the file, but remain locked to the PCM serial number.

Resolved via his support ticket, considering this issue resolved.