So the e tune is loaded.

My tuner and I finally got the e-tune started. I have a fully bolted TC and we used an E47 mix. We have it set up on 21/22psi right now, and are going to try to push it come saturday on a dyno but I want to make sure we are on the right track to doing this safely and properly.

Mods:
AEM cold air intake, new version
ZZP Catted Downpipe
ZZP 3 inch Exhaust, no resonator
ZZP Intercooler
ZZP Cold and Hot side Charge Pipes
3 Bar Map Sensors
Aeroforce guages


Things i noticed from our initial tuning:

1. The car pulls like an absolute freight train on e. This 21/22psi tune has more power I think than the old 24psi tune I had on the car. We stopped at 23 degrees of timing because our butt dyno didn't notice the extra power. We will up it saturday if the dyno says we make more power.

2. I noticed rail pressure is quite a bit higher. At idle the car would be around ~350psi on gas, with e i see spikes of over 1000psi at idle, around 950 most of the time. Not sure if this is normal, thoughts?

3. We really didn't change much in regards to the tuning with new hptuners parameters since all this stuff is relatively new and needs to be explored. Rail pressure is 2800psi courtesy of vince's underlay. Not sure if we need to change that. We didn't even use his e-85 update. We are not sure how this fuel mass mode works on hptuners since it is all new. I just want to make sure we need to be where we should when we go 24psi on saturday, i don't want the system going super lean. Thoughts?

3. Misfires - the car doesn't misfire a lot, but it definetaly misfires more than it did on gas. My stock plugs are still on at 35000 miles, not sure if they need to be changed. The misfires are thoughout the cylinders, not to a specific one. Thoughts?

4. My car is like being at a rodeo. It bucks and hesitates all the time. The car wants to go into boost all the time. My tuner and I played around with the DALS 3000 rpms and under, tried to smooth them out, with not much success. It is so annoying how this car bucks around. Even the safe base tune bucks around! It's the worst at ~2500 rpms and it's not gear depenant. Cruising at 80mph and 3000rpms, no problems though. We thought maybe new cam tables will help. Thoughts?

5. My car also surges like crazy. Everytime i left off the gas i get the wo wo wo wo wo wo all the time. We were stumped as to why this was going on all the time because it was never a problem before.

6. No KR anywhere.;)


I'd appreciate any insight. Cheers.

Thank you.

Vince's layer doesn't let you make any fueling changes even though you may change them in your tune with HPT now. Last I wrote him they were still locked. It may have changed in the last week.

You need to increase the inj duty cycle by about 30% for E-85. If you are on Vince's layer, like I posted above, I don't think you can. You are running scary lean right now.

No CEL's for Fuel Trims going +30% yet?

the surging is caused by the aem silicone piece... i tried stock airbox with it and mine still was surge central, swapped back to stock and it shut right up... i never tried to run the aem pipe with the stock turbo inlet tho... the AEM pipe does seem to put the air flow numbers at idle and super low loads off the low end of the chart as well, atleast it did on my car.

Post a log.

Spoke to Vince before tuning this car, and he told be that the fuel changes from HP tuners would be effective, that I could put it in fuel mass mode, change pressure, ect.

Trims are close now, adjusted the MAF up a bit (15% I think it was), and trims are close to 0.

The surging happened even before the E85 mix went in, it wants to boost very easily, and then surges. Dialed back the DALS in that area and it helped a lot, but it is still there.

Can't post any logs now since I am at work. The WOT is running like a champ, Wideband stays right where it is, trims are good so there is no lean spots.

Kevin

Why rape the MAF freq when you can increase the injector constant then? This ECU is air load based so the closer to the stock MAF freq table the better I would think.

Getting the injector constant up closer to where it belongs will also help the cold starts on E85, it needs more fuel.

Kevin can you post the log when you get a chance? Thanks.

We might just have to get vince's underlay if we can't figure it out here. I'm really confused how this is accomplished through hptuners.

I want to make sure it's right before we go 24psi.

I always thought Vince's underlay was to allow changes in injection timing, ie. a larger window. What is the equivalent on hptuners? (unless that's what Tom is talking about)

I think this is a 116mph trapping car. Not bad for 21psi lol. 24psi and 26 degrees of timing might make this car a complete beast.

Didn't notice any starting issues when we tuned. Turned it on today, but the car is parked in the dungeon of a condo unit, so I expected it to fire up.

Anyone else have any ideas on why this car is bucking?

bump. would appreciate some advice if possible.

maybe from term and byt.

why does the car buck so much?

Aem intake, possible vacuum leak, tune issue with the hpt or even trifecta underlay. Without a log and tune its just guesses.

With all the new features available, an underlay file is completely unnecessary and might be the root cause of your bucking issue.

I notice the same pressure issues when using Fuel Mass mode. Watch it while you drive, it will get up to 2000psi with mid loads easy. So I went back to pressure mode, which I recommend you do to. I have full E running on my car with pressure mode and the constant changed.

Yeah, that is another point to notice BYT. I think 22psi and 50/50 mix has pretty much maxed out the fuel system. 2000 psi on midrange throttle, sometimes higher levels of cruising even 1700 psi. That is something we will have to try.

Jaxon. It's not a vacuum leak. It's not the intake either because even my stock air box on the 24psi tune before used to do it before, just not as much.

I'm not convinced it's actually surging though. Either way it's not surging at throttle, its doing it when i release the gas and press in the clutch.

You aren't close to maxing it with a Blend. Im running a pretty strong tune on full e now without running out of fuel.


And more fuel pressure is not the answer with this car Im finding :)

Working on it today, I will try going back to pressure mode and using hte constant. Forgot we had that now actually, glad Tom brought it up.

The overlay isnt needed with the extra options, but having two tunes available at the press of a button is a nice feature.

Kevin

Let us know if the inj constant really changes when you write it, Last I wrote Vince a few weeks ago he said it would not with the layer, things change though. He has some tables locked, some not.

Only way I think you can tell is if you can correct the LTFT's with it since we can't read entire a layer tune. Keep us posted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW

And more fuel pressure is not the answer with this car Im finding :)

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Interesting Nick, when these new tables came out I messed around with higher fuel pressures and didn't have good results. I'm back to almost stock on those tables.

If anyone thought about the physics of it they'd see it wouldn't be the best approach to fix our problems. If you have a delivery system (pumps) that has a set max volume and pressure, demanding higher pressures isn't going to fix anything. Actually it makes things worse. If you're demanding 2k psi and you're getting dips down to 1.7k or so, the ECM is seeing a 300psi error and tries to adjust for it. If you're demanding 2.8k, you'd still be getting the same 1.7k dips but at that point the ECM would be saying, holy crap we're 1100psi below what we should be at, we've already maxed everything out, we have a SERIOUS problem.

The other interesting thing I see here, which I saw and posted about long ago, is this (and this absolutely is not intended to slam Vince, his discoveries and contributions to all of this has been awesome)...

Give one guy access to some information (tables to adjust in our case) and he'll figure stuff out, but only as fast as his skills, experience, knowledge, time, access to cars, risk taking abilities, luck, etc will allow. Give that same information to a whole bunch of people (Thanks Chris and Bill!) and guess what, discoveries come at a HUGELY faster rate. Duh.

Keep up the good work guys. I've been a little busy working on getting this race car ready for auction. I installed a fire system in it, removed all the MSD ignition parts and replaced them with period correct ('59) parts, adjusted the 6 Stromberg carbs (12 mixture screws!) and restored the $3k a piece Halibrand wheels.

We just dynoed the bugger.

Seems the rail pressure is all sorted out, A/Fs are dead on and so are trims. Everything is great.

It put out 360whp and 410wtq on a dynojet, 23psi, e47 mix.

Big thanks to Kevin for the tune. (And for putting up with me when i don't know what i am talking about.)

Thanks everyone for the help!

Sounds about right. Good job!