Which are the clutch tables (not clutch fill)? Are solenoid duty cycles available PIDs?
Which are the clutch tables (not clutch fill)? Are solenoid duty cycles available PIDs?
oncoming and offgoing clutch tables for upshift and downshift pressure control.
There are solenoid "pressures" A,B,C, and D. E is only an on/off solenoid. In R,1,2,3 its off, in 4,5,6 its on. When E is on solenoid D controls pressure to the overdrive clutch instead of the low/reverse clutch.
Transmission range, input and ouput shaft speed, and temperature sensors are the only sensors in the transmission. no pressure sensors.
You also have a line pressure and torque converter clutch solenoids along with those 5 other solenoids.
Main line pressure will vary for shift feel, that is why its mostly tot and engine speed axis's are used in tables under shift properties. engine speed determines pump speed and fluid temperature is used to correct this into an estimated pressure. The line solenoid then reduces this pressure to the desired pressure. This makes the calibration very sensitive to the fluid fill level. It also makes your max and min pressures only effective if values are set inside of the actual range for the solenoid to control. Ramp rates and clutch fill times are there to make sure the clutches apply enough to hold and also not be in the middle of releasing.
Attachment 86967 Look at my 2-3 shift. Do you think the oncoming clutch is coming on to aggressively?
The challenge I face now on the 6F55 is mainly with the 1-2 and 2-3 up shifts. It takes too long on the 2-3 WOT and it seems like it hangs up holding onto the current gear too long. My Fusion Sport did this badly on the 1 to 2 as well but the Explorer is losing time with the 2 to 3. What settings do I need to focus on because murfie did a great job explaining how the clutches engaged or releases but an example of where to increase or decrease pressure would help me with the 2 to 3. And since the 6R80 followers the same element sequence, whatever works on the 6R80 ought to help with the 6F55
I had to perform some WOT shifting with the trans/engine not fully/entirely warmed up yet but it wasn't on purpose. This resulted in nailing the revlimiter after each WOT shift to the point it was hitting the fuel limiter each time.
I only touched the slip/torque transfer settings in the lower right quadrant. Based on murfie's description for TOT as rows and engine RPM as columns, I had previously only adjusted the warm/high trans temp settings. Does this mean I should adjust the slip/torque transfer settings for all the high RPM rows? Based on murfie's description for the oncoming/offgoing pressure tables, the rows are torque, and columns are turbine speed. How would I adjust these for better operation in cold temperatures?
Do I basically shorten slip and torque transfer times for all temp rows at high engine RPM?
Quote:
Originally Posted by metroplex
So what ARE the axis values for adaptive tables?
There are 7 rows of torque is it: 0, 50, 100, 250, 300, 350, 400? and turbine rpm is 5 or 7 columns, like 1000, 2500, 4000, 5000, 6000 and 1000, 2000, 3000, 4000, 5000, 6000, 7000 ? lol .
We have been waiting for those parameters to be decrypted for yeas.
I did some tuning years ago before the advent of torque-based transmissions. I've recently started tuning again and am trying to come up to speed on the new torque-based transmission models (specifically for now, a Ford 6F50). I understand the mechanics of the new transmissions, but am not completely clear on control of them. After many hours of scouring the Internet, I came across murfie's post excerpted above, which is the most comprehensible/succinct information I've found thus far (sorry for drudging up such an old thread). Would you guys be so kind as to fill in a few blanks and give a few clarifications?Quote:
Originally Posted by murfie
"Just before this is complete the pressure is lowered to reduce the inertia bump from the oncoming gear." Does this mean that pressure is lowered to the offgoing clutch, to the oncoming clutch, or to both? And just before what is completed -- the overall torque phase, or the lowering of pressure?
"initial slip time describes this point in the shift." Is "initial slip time" a point in time when the slip begins to happen, or it it a measure of how long the slip lasts (I believe it's the former, but please correct me if I'm wrong).
"Overall slip time describes how long the pressure drops for." Does this mean that "overall slip time" is how long pressure takes to fall to a lower target pressure, like a ramp, or does it mean that "overall slip time" is how long pressure stays lowered after it has fallen to its target lower pressure?
"The pressure is then built back up in the inertia phase." This means that pressure is built back up for application only to the oncoming clutch, correct?
I want to clarify the above to make sure I'm tuning efficiently, but also for the following reason. In my 6F50 I've been able to achieve beautiful, firm, perfect (exactly as I want them) up/down shifts by simply shortening torque converter lock delay after shifts, increasing torque converter lockup rates after shifts, and shortening target overall slip times for each possible up/down shift -- without modifying any initial slip time or torque transfer time values at all. However, after reading murfie's explanation, I'm wondering if I may be putting unnecessary strain/wear on my transmission (particularly on friction materials) by, for example, trying to fully apply oncoming clutches while offgoing clutches are still firmly held (even though I'm not getting any flare or RPM flat spots, I'm still worried that I may not be handling the shifts in a manner that is safest for my transmission).
Thanks in advance!
Hello all!
I have a Fusion Titanium 2.0 Ecoboost AWD 2013 which have a very annoying shift delay (shift lag) specifically from 2nd to 3rd on high engine load and when the trans is cold. Im an Electronic Engineer who works with hardware/software development for Industrial Control, so i decided to make some investigation. Based on the data observed using a hobbyist scanner (USB + Forscan), it seems that lag comes from the way that the PCM is driving the solenoids on this specific situation (trans cold, medium/high load). So, i decided to look for advanced information about how the PCM controls the transmission and found this forum. Hope i can get some ideas...
So, i monitored the SHFT_LAG PID with a scanner and for this specific gear change (2-3) i see values up to 1800ms when the trans is cold (fluid between 25 and 50 celsius), while on other gear changes i see it between 500 and 800ms).
After the trans is warm (running for about 30 to 40 min, where the fluid reaches around 90 celsius), this lag reduces to around 900ms. On light engine load situation, independently if the trans is cold or warm, the shift lag measured by the PCM stays around 500ms.
I already replaced the whole valve body (solenoid body + main control) and it didnt change. So, I checked with the scanner the control signals of solenoids SSA/B/C/D comparing both scenarions and observed that, on high-lag situation, the change of control signals of SSB/C (both turn off from 2nd to 3rd) occurs is a much slower ramp (around 2000ms to complete) compared to the low-lag situation where the 2-3 shift takes only 1000ms to complete.
I see two possibilities:
1) PCM software is crap
2) PCM may be receiving incorrect data from some sensor, which makes it to take the wrong decision about how to drive the solenoids on that situation.
I would appreciate any ideas of how to proceed with the investigation.
Kind regards!
Well this is tune-able to say the least. Post your stock file.
Hello veefour, thank you. Actually i dont have the stock file yet. Im still deciding if i invest on purchasing a MPVI and credits to tune it, because im not sure if tuning will solve my problem.Quote:
Originally Posted by veeefour
Initially i suspected that the cause of this 2-3 lag was a mechanical problem on valve body (either on solenoid body or on the main control), specially due the history of known problems reported on the internet for this part of 6F35. So, i replaced the whole valve body by a factory/original brand new one... and, for my surprise, it didnt solve this lag of 2-3 shift. It remained identical.
After this, i decided to check (with a cheap OBD scanner) how the PCM was driving the solenoids, specially looking how it would change the solenoid state when shifting from 2nd to 3rd. As i described on previous post, on this specific 2-3 shift, the PCM turns off the solenoids B and C. What i observed is that, when the trans is cold (fluid around 40?C lets say), the PCM performs a very slow ramp on the PWM signal of these two solenoids (the ramp makes a stop-by around 50%, and takes almost 2000ms to complete). In other hand, when the trans is hot (95?C lets say), this ramp is much faster, taking around 1000ms to complete). Its hard to believe that the PCM calibration was designed this way, with a 2-3 shift being slower than other upshifts by design...
Anyway, i downloaded a hpt file of the same car (Fusion 2.0 Ecoboost AWD 2013) from another post, opened it on VCM editor and explored the Trans section. On shift properties tab, the only parameters that seems dependent on TOT (temperature) are Boost Pressure and Boost Time. The first have the same values along the temperature range. The second do varies with temperature, but not as exagerated to justify a shift lag reducing from 2000ms to 1000ms with temperature variation.
I see that a lot of transmission tables are based on Torque measurement, but i could not find this PID to monitor it on the OBD scanner. Do you know how can i monitor it?
I have attached this hpt file here if you want to take a look. Attachment 123920
Thank you!