2014 Charger 6.4 -Forged with Cam- knock retard issue

So i got a 2014 Charger 6.4 automatic on the dyno
suppose to have a New block with forged internals and a cam
Kooks Lt Headers no cats and straight pipe exhaust
all the work was done somewhere else, ran it on the dyno and it pulled 430 whp and a terrible dyno graph.

I removed the Diablo tune it had in it and returned it to stock and started from scratch. I don't normally tune Dodge vehicles so i need some advice.
only issue i have as of now is WOT Knock and a lot of it.

I'm running .82 lambda
I have the timing down to 10* and it still wants to remove around 13* of timing. I thought maybe it had bad fuel. I dumped 5 gallons of 100 octane in it and it didn't make any difference. To make a long story short i tried just about everything, i even shut off #2 knock sensor and i'm only getting about 3-4 degrees of timing removal with #1 knock sensor.

With #2 knock sensor shut off i get a smooth dyno graph up until 4500 rpm then #1 knock sensor starts pulling timing.

I'm ready to let this car go as i can't waste anymore time on it but i figured let me ask here maybe one of you guys has an idea.

For those of you who've tuned these with cams how much timing are you giving them and roughly what are these cars bringing hp wise?
The files attached were my last attempt
It ran strong to 4700 rpm then started knocking but the #2 knock sensor is turned off.

I won't be leaving the knock sensor turned off but i had to try testing it with it shut off.
I pulled a few plugs to check them and they looked fine. i'm at a loss here unless this thing is just really noisy.

Anything lose that can me making noise the knock sensors are picking up? Knock sensor #1 is showing some high voltage across a large RPM range. Jumps from 1.23V to 3.16V in a fraction of a second, then KR kicks in.

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Originally Posted by richhurley

Anything lose that can me making noise the knock sensors are picking up? Knock sensor #1 is showing some high voltage across a large RPM range. Jumps from 1.23V to 3.16V in a fraction of a second, then KR kicks in.

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Had vehicle on the lift, checked everything underneath. the car is solid, nothing interfering with the knock sensors. no exhaust rattles.

I would start by setting my spark tables back to stock and starting from scratch. Just looking at them tells me there are some big inconsistencies here causing your issue. These vehicle's are nothing like gm boss.. they work much different.

I would start around 12 to 16 degrees depending on fuel but honestly the timing doesn't need to be forced, it will pick up the proper timing on it's own. I just kind of smooth it out so it doesn't go way low.

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Originally Posted by luciddeath

I would start around 12 to 16 degrees depending on fuel but honestly the timing doesn't need to be forced, it will pick up the proper timing on it's own. I just kind of smooth it out so it doesn't go way low.

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So I picked up a stock file from the repository to compare and i see what you mean. Maybe i'll start over on the timing tables.

Start with the last two rows of your MBT Spark table. You have a big drop in maximum spark with just a small change in aircharge. Next look at the PT Spark table, looks like you should smooth out/reduce the spark on the higher aircharge rows. Your Base Minimum Spark table may need a little work too (be adjusted for aircharge).

any chance the motor has Mahle pistons? Have seen and dealt with personally very noisy, lose motors that drive the knock sensors mad. For me, I have a 426 forged motor, Mahle pistons and a billet Mahle crank. Sensors are almost maxed out until past peak torque. Ran MS109 with almost no timing and still pulled all the timing out right to 0 degrees. The only solution was go old school, listen and read plugs. Car made over 1000whp on a measly 17psi with a Whipple 4.5L, so we know its healthy.

Just food for thought.

I can share my own exp mine runs a PC makes a max of around 14 psi on 98 ron
Around 5.5 K up to max rpm 6900 I have about 6 deg total adv WOT
KNK sensors are upscaled and set not to operate until 90 deg water temp so the rattly Mahle pistons I have fitted wont cause a heap of long term knk to be set ,until it warms up,, that does not happen until oil temp gets over 90 deg c
then its quiet and the sensors are happy
make sure its not just logging cold eng rattles and logging knk in long term cause that will cause heaps of headaches..

With my 2618 drop in pistons, my sensors have always been pretty active until past 5,200 rpms. I have recently switched over to E70 and it made no difference..... even with a stock-like timing curve.

So, I bumped the voltages to 3.0 after 3,000 rpms and tweaked the severity multipliers some. That eliminated most of it, except for the initial hit (half hitters). Bank 2 is the worst offender and will see jumps to 4+ volts. After 5,200... voltages range from 1.5 to 2.5 volts with bank 2 still always higher.

I'm going to leave mine where they are for now and just read the plugs. Being NA with E70, I'm just not really worried about it being real knock.

We build em with half the specified p/b clearance and the knock sensors work nicely again.
On pull down the pistons look perfect...zero scuffing.
Not much help in your current case but for future reference don't be scared to run smaller clearances than the manufacturers recommend.

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Originally Posted by 06300CSRT8

any chance the motor has Mahle pistons? Have seen and dealt with personally very noisy, lose motors that drive the knock sensors mad. For me, I have a 426 forged motor, Mahle pistons and a billet Mahle crank. Sensors are almost maxed out until past peak torque. Ran MS109 with almost no timing and still pulled all the timing out right to 0 degrees. The only solution was go old school, listen and read plugs. Car made over 1000whp on a measly 17psi with a Whipple 4.5L, so we know its healthy.

Just food for thought.

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