Tune advice

Hey Guys,
Just started messing with my c63 with hpt. Little rusty as last time I used Hptuners was back in 2011 with a cobalt ss turbo. Anyway, I adjusted the max desired throttle table for my variant, dabbled in the torque management tables a little. Just a few questions, still only getting 87% throttle at WOT and was curious if anyone has found a work around to get throttle commanded? Also getting some spark retard with stock spark tables(still trying to figure them out). I think I got my MAF adjusted better than it was. All I have is air filters, and secondary cat delete. Attached is my second log, does everything look ok so far?
Thanks guysAttachment 84403

Good old Cobalts! A lot of the Mercedes stuff should feel pretty familiar then :)

Are you running 91 or 93? On my car, it liked a peak timing of 24* on 93 but Ive seen some take 26-28* no problem. Make sure you adjust tq max vs VSS or you will start hitting limp mode.

As far as the throttle amount, I have yet to see anyone post that they can actually hit 100%

91 and a splash of e85. BYT! The man, myth, the legend! You ended up getting a C63 too. That?s awesome. Ya still miss that old cobalt though was a fun car. Ya most looks pretty similar. Just trying to remember everything lol. I got into Evos for a while so was using ECU flash. This forum is a little ?less active? than the LNF one though. But I put the tq max vs vss at like 1,000 or something and 400 in first cell. Any other limiters I need to change? Car seems to be ok in the afr department. Little rich but I don?t mind that. Lambda adjustment looks a little more complicated than the LNF for sure.
Thanks for the response!

Yea, I bought a C63 3 years ago and haven't looked back! This is the longest Ive owned a car in awhile now lol. I like when people bring SSTC's for tunes because I get to drive and enjoy them and then return them after LOLOL! Altho I have a SSSC sitting in my spare bay in the shop to setup for road racing next year with a buddy.

The Lamda adjustment is def different on the C's vs the Cobalts but its actually pretty easy to get in line. Its just base target Lambda table and the Lambda full load. Since its factory Wideband like the Cobalts were, it handles keeping it on your commanded Lambda pretty well!

I have found that getting the MAF in line helps a LOT with shifting in C mode. My biggest 2 complaints (which were the same issue) with my Eurocharged tunes that I had were no MAF tuning at all. So the idle would hunt a little bit in either extreme cold or really hot/humid days. Also, as Jerry kept adding more throttle response in newer versions of his tunes, the automatic shifting in C mode kept getting worse. It was almost CVT like with the V7 tune. Once I started tuning my own car when HP released support, I found that is oddly related to the MAF tuning. So while I miss the awesome downshift blips the EC tunes have, I couldn't stand the horrible shifting.

Make sure you set the max durability spark to match your high load commanded timing. Before they added that table I could not get the car to run over 20* of timing no matter what I commanded. Its still a couple degrees short of commanded but I can at least make it do what I want finally.

What year is your car out of curiosity?

2011. Ya this car is miles ahead of the SS! I wanna say outta all the cars Ive owned this one is definitely my favorite. May not be as fast but the fun factor is much better! Much more refined. Its strange you mention the shifting. I noticed after I cleaned up the maf table I could have sworn my part throttle shifts were crisper/faster. Im glad Im not the only one seeing that haha. I thought I was crazy for a second. Only thing I worry about is the cam buckets, so far so good, fingers crossed. I have the updated headstuds though which I hear is an issue with older ones. On the timing maybe I?m wrong but it looks like it?s making low 20s in my high rpm high load areas. Maybe I?m not logging the right pid? I know I?m getting some retard too. In my main and optimum timing tables it?s commanding like high 20s low 30s at the 95% load areas 5k and above stock.

Check that max durability spark table, its set to 20* above 5k in the high load columns. Thats why you are commanding so much higher to get around 20*.

AHHH I gotcha. Ya it's not much higher than 20 but i'm still getting some KR it looks like. Thats crazy stock it hits higher timing. So you actually lowered your timing from stock in some areas then to keep the knock down? Also I remember My optimum tables in the SS I just made all the same as main tables, is this similar? I remember they were like a urgency thing or something. That feels like a long time ago lol. I am hitting over 20 degrees though stock. Or am I lookin at wrong table?

I would subtract 4 degrees of timing from your four base ignition maps from 4760 rpm and up (y-axis) and lower the four Optimum Spark tables to match accordingly. Your ECM is pulling 3 degrees of timing at the redline of 3rd gear running 0.82 lambda (12.00 A/F), which is pretty rich for naturally aspirated application. Naturally aspirated you want to be around .85-.87 lambda or 12.50-12.75 A/F to be safe. Running this rich you shouldn't be knocking unless your running too much timing or gas octane level is low. Relog and make sure the ECM is not pulling timing from knock and then start adjusting A/F's.

MAF tuning looks good. Like BackyardTurbo mentioned, tuning the MAF improves drive-ability and the shifts are more linear now. I too noticed with Eurocharged tunes (V5, V6, & V7), the shift points were really short and you would be in 7th gear by 30mph in C mode lol. My EC tune (V7 as that is the only one I had a chance to log) had no MAF tuning either. Going back to my EC logs, LTFT is constantly adding in the 15-20% range.

That has always been my biggest gripe with EC tunes. I couldnt even drive v7 as much as I loved the added power from the cam timing tuning. My trans felt like total garbage with that tune on it

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Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW

That has always been my biggest gripe with EC tunes. I couldnt even drive v7 as much as I loved the added power from the cam timing tuning. My trans felt like total garbage with that tune on it

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My thoughts exactly. With MAF tuning and pedal characteristics adjustments, the car definitely accelerates smoother and the shifts are crisp. The torque pull is phenomenal now when shifting in manual mode from 2nd to 3rd. I broke the tires loose at the top of 2nd gear, testing and tuning around town. :drivin: I've been able to hit 472 ft-lbs running 0.88 lambda at 5200 rpm (HP/torque curves crossover point) while the EC V7 header tune I was only able to get 415 ft-lbs.

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I was big on trying to run leaner and honestly, the car pulls WAY harder with .83-.85 lambda area. Especially if you can get the AFR to sit nice and flat as soon as you go WOT. Try it, do a 60-100 pull with the way you have it now and then try what I said and repeat the test. Compare the times in the logger to see which is quicker, thats really the best way to test without a dyno.

Also, that Tq reading may very well be different because your MAF is adjusted and the EC wasn't. That will effect that figure since its just a calculation.

Cool, funny thing is adjusted my tune so my lambda is .83-.85 after that run. Wanted to play it safe before I went to the track last Thursday and didn't want lean it out too much without putting it on a dyno. Thanks again for the tip. I might strap it on the dyno this Saturday that I've used since own the C63, so I'll be able to get a good comparison. What rpm are you starting to adjust the warm VVT tables and what direction +/-? Trying to get a feel of where the power is.

Yes, even though it's a calculation, it is an indication of the amount of "work" the engine is producing (Power) as it has a direct correlation to the amount of air (mass air flow) the engine is ingesting. With properly tuned MAFs, the commanded lambda values the ECM is commanding actually matches measured lambda values on the WB O2 sensor. The ECM is not hunting (oscillating) to supply more fuel (or remove) to keep the commanded lambda at the specified values and runs more efficiently and hence increases the power output of the engine. For example, look at the following parameters on the EC V7 log screen shot I previously attached and this screen shot were I ran 11.884 @ 119.14mph:

Manifold Absolute Pressure - EC (13.9 psi) mine (14.1 psi)
Timing Advance (SAE) - EC (19.5 deg) mine (18.5 deg)
EQ Ratio Commanded - EC (.84) mine (.86)
WB EQ Ratio 1 (SAE) - EC (.85) mine (.84)
WB EQ Ratio 5 (SAE) - EC (.83) mine (.85)
Injector Pulse Width Bank 1 - EC (12.4ms) mine (12.6ms)
Injector Pulse Width Bank 2 - EC (12.2ms) mine (12.5ms)
Inector Duty - EC (53.4%) mine (55.2%)
Intake Cam Angle - EC (7.4 deg) mine (9.3 deg)
Intake Cam 2 Angle - EC (7.3 deg) mine (9.2 deg)
Exhaust Cam Angle - EC (-5.6 deg) mine (-7.3 deg)
Exhaust Cam 2 Angle - EC (-5.4 deg) mine (-7.2 deg)
Mass Airflow Sensor 1 Period - EC (173 us) mine (177 us)
Mass Airflow Sensor 2 Period - EC (171 us) mine (177 us)

As you can see, almost all these parameters are the same or pretty close since with all engine tuning, we are trying to achieve the same thing, certain timing and lambda values that is optimum for the engine for most power.

The differences are Engine Torque, MAF (lb/min), Absolute Load (SAE), STFT 1, STFT 2, LTFT 1, & LTFT 2 values. EC V7 engine torque is 415 ft-lbs while mine is 450 ft-lbs. With all my EC tunes I had (V5 to V7), I was never able to beat my best stock tune time of 11.962 @ 117.14 mph on street tires. I even had MBH headers on with V7 tune and I wasn't able to be that time (WTF?!). Flash the ECM with Quaalude's HP Tuners tune with MAF tuning and some other adjustments ;) and I run 11.844 on Michelin PS4, imagine that lol.
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If you have the V7 tune, the cam timing values are a really good start. Make a histogram to log the cam values so you can easily copy them to your HP Tune. You should notice a really nice gain in power from 4500-5k area until redline.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BackyardTurbo_FTW

If you have the V7 tune, the cam timing values are a really good start. Make a histogram to log the cam values so you can easily copy them to your HP Tune. You should notice a really nice gain in power from 4500-5k area until redline.

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Ok, good idea BackyardTurbo! I've got multiple logs so I made a spreadsheet and use the MAX function. Looks like a couple of degrees difference for both cams compared to stock map.

You dont need a spreadsheet. You can setup the charts in the logger to mimic the cam adjustment table in HP and directly see the values you need to change. Its around 18* peak on the intake vs the 24-25 in the stock tune. It will wake it up a lot!

Yes, I'm using some of your charts and tables you posted previously. I'm just using the spreadsheet to populate a single intake and exhaust table from multiple logs as some cells in the various logs don't have a recorded value.

I wouldn't copy the whole table, I liked the stock values better in the part throttle midrange vs the EC ones. But the highload stuff was a good start to make more mid/top end power for sure!