Boosted Mustang 10r80 skipping/shorting 3rd at WOT?

Hey all, I am having a problem again with my 10r80 ( 3 engines; warranty tune, 2 trans).
When I go WOT the tuner has it shifting hard ( 700whp already has the slowest pulley that will fit), on the 2-3 it will spin a bit, with a 3rd gear command seemingly about a 400rpm no flare ( except tire OSS)...Example command shift at 7000rpm completes shift at 7400rpm, its been this way its entire life pre and post built...the rest of the gears have about 150-250 spread with no flares....

What it does is command 3rd and spins then bottoms out shift recovery but instead of pulling 3rd after it settles it either goes directly into 4th or pulls 3rd for .5 seconds and goes directly into 4th...I was told by tuner to take to the track to get more grip.....did same thing.....so he said trans was bad....
Ok as you can tell this car would break a rich man and im not, having been thru engines won't go into it all...im old grey beard I rarely open it up....but when I do im in it....first new car ever 2019 Mustang GT Premium A10...
Had the trans built the builder as he started tearing into it was messaging me saying it looks literally like a prefilled crate engine he can't even tell its been run 0 shavings or clutch material...( 9k miles)..
He tearing the clutch groupings down out of the drum and he said zero wear on the clutches not even glazed with a few hot spots on the steels, said he could put those back in a regular car or truck and run 150k miles.....
We had to do a crap load of machining and using Ford selective parts to get the upgraded clutches ( they were thicker clutch and steels, not drop in at all) and he invited me and sent videos and we did this in coordination with Raybestos ( McLeod) took a while but we got each groupings within the specs Raybestos gave us and the sprag along with everything else was perfect...

I went on and via mine and others needing comically picked up and dropped off at doctors/hospitals because they can climb into SUV, so I had bit a break in tune as instructed by Raybestos ect using each gear, no skip shift to seat the clutches, I even used manual 1st and 2nd which fire B group as Holds...
1200 or so miles went on...
I was fighting with Ford over factory paint issues and left there shaking, a ZL1 pulled up and I old man got beside him legimately checking out his car which from in front and side looked good, I gave him old man thumbs up props, he thought I wanted to race he smashed and instinctively I did too and it kinda felt like I spun fell back and then pulled back....
It got to bothering me my car is near 9s runs 139 in 1/4 on dragy...im like surely its not still doing it ( the mph we were at would have absolutely been bottom or 3rd though one of a handful of times I wasn't logging literally over 2 years )...
I replicated it and sure enough it's doing the same thing it was I can roll and smash or stop doesnt matter it shifts FIRM snaps tires loose on shift not nuts a bump seemingly from 61mph to 79-81mph and back down but it gives it that 4th....which then loads the shit out this tvs gen 3 coyote at 12 to 1 compression on 93 octane putting the trans at bottom of 4th instead of 3rd and ive seen 2.00 load.......
So the well known tuner that told me to build it tried a few things and had me unplug the "dyno plug" ect same thing....now they aren't even trying or telling me what to try......again im left to figure things out....
So interestingly I go out there and put it in paddle mode and it ( even with my highly imprecise shifts) runs its best 0-60 on my hybrid drag pack NT555RII tires ( 3.42) best 330ft, best 1/8th and best mph of 109 in 1/8th ALL 2 tenths faster and 1.5 mph better than my best last year pretrans build....AND 3rd held 1.84 load at bottom of gear and pulled out perfectly.....seemingly taking mechanical hold out the equation......

I've been looking in the captain insano trans section to see if I can find something like I had in standalone where when spinning it would only let it shift once per XX time to settle and not just blow thru gears.....
I suggested to tuner hey raise the 3rd gear shift up real high, on this engine less dangerous than bending a rod at low rpm or rattling on high load at 93 to test nothing yet...

Just wondering if anyone can think of something in the trans section I might can adjust ( I don't have access to theirs but a decent base file for my maf scale ect)...
Seems to me at best I thinks its ready for another gear at worst something in the tune is possibly limited and asking for 4th....there are no codes...

Any help is appreciated...
Posting a csv with it in auto vs me manually....
Attachment 105659Attachment 105658

This is like trying to find a needle in a haystack without being able to look at the current tune. Maybe try a different tuner and see if it goes away... who knows maybe your tuner isn't as good as they think they are.

can you recommend another good tuner?
I guess I can toss the EB Stage 2 93 tune on...tweak a few settings to get fueling and spark similar and try it......Probably what ill do ( but if I lower the power doing this or aggression ive changed a variable )....kinda maddening.......

thanks for taking the time to reply....

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Originally Posted by sgilbert1967

can you recommend another good tuner?
I guess I can toss the EB Stage 2 93 tune on...tweak a few settings to get fueling and spark similar and try it......Probably what ill do ( but if I lower the power doing this or aggression ive changed a variable )....kinda maddening.......

thanks for taking the time to reply....

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Man they say I have a "blunt" language...and attitude..

If you went with blue raybestos clutches - you are in situation no tune can fix...

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Originally Posted by veeefour

Man they say I have a "blunt" language...and attitude..

If you went with blue raybestos clutches - you are in situation no tune can fix...

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Lol ohh man i'll never live down the bluntness comment lol! Do you think the raybestos blues would cause shift flare though? I would think they would help not hurt? But it'll require changing clutch fills, ramp rates, boost pressures, all that jazz to get it dialed in for the new clutches as the hold more torque. I haven't tuned a A10 yet to know.

trust me no one could be more blunt than my tuner, lol....
No they arent the blues, its not flaring, its spinning then short shifting OSS IS going up so the output shaft is moving vs slip...
They say its normal, I can see that stock...problem is 2 fold.
1. I got 70 logs of it spinning in the exact same place, exact same time and exact same amount because its really just "catching a 2nd" and it NOT short shifting, if this IS normal behavor I have back to back logs across a year where in same spot, at same load, same DA, same weight, same tire, same air pressure ect it NOT doing it so was THAT not normal....as it is its useless wot street or strip cause its gonna do that bumble spin always has...
2. I dont know which was it up it did it before and after the build, hard to isolate to the valvebody when if I manually paddle shift it, it holds and runs best it ever has.....the paddles are just electromechanically firing the same solenoid combinations it would in AUTO, and to my mind that only leaves tune.....

yes there are a zillion precharge, oncoming, offgoing, prefill, release time haha its makes my head hurt....this PCM is NO JOKE.....

Its Raybestoes GPZ its not a high HP car 700whp, they should be plenty. In fact the trans builder was like dude your trans looks new inside ( well its got 10k miles guess it should hehe ) zero shavings zero material, clutches arent glazed just a few burn spots on what looks like aggressive shifts...He never thought the level of damage to the clutch packs he said he would keep and reuse in his expedition when needed LOL, was enough to cause my symptoms....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sgilbert1967

trust me no one could be more blunt than my tuner, lol....
No they arent the blues, its not flaring, its spinning then short shifting OSS IS going up so the output shaft is moving vs slip...
They say its normal, I can see that stock...problem is 2 fold.
1. I got 70 logs of it spinning in the exact same place, exact same time and exact same amount because its really just "catching a 2nd" and it NOT short shifting, if this IS normal behavor I have back to back logs across a year where in same spot, at same load, same DA, same weight, same tire, same air pressure ect it NOT doing it so was THAT not normal....as it is its useless wot street or strip cause its gonna do that bumble spin always has...
2. I dont know which was it up it did it before and after the build, hard to isolate to the valvebody when if I manually paddle shift it, it holds and runs best it ever has.....the paddles are just electromechanically firing the same solenoid combinations it would in AUTO, and to my mind that only leaves tune.....

yes there are a zillion precharge, oncoming, offgoing, prefill, release time haha its makes my head hurt....this PCM is NO JOKE.....

Its Raybestoes GPZ its not a high HP car 700whp, they should be plenty. In fact the trans builder was like dude your trans looks new inside ( well its got 10k miles guess it should hehe ) zero shavings zero material, clutches arent glazed just a few burn spots on what looks like aggressive shifts...He never thought the level of damage to the clutch packs he said he would keep and reuse in his expedition when needed LOL, was enough to cause my symptoms....

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My approach would be to go back to a bone stock trans tune. Do not change anything on the engine side and then run the car and see if the issue persists. Also, if you can shift it without the problem happening manually then one would have to assume it is trans tune or torque management related. Can you post the tune?
My .02

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Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching

Lol ohh man i'll never live down the bluntness comment lol! Do you think the raybestos blues would cause shift flare though? I would think they would help not hurt? But it'll require changing clutch fills, ramp rates, boost pressures, all that jazz to get it dialed in for the new clutches as the hold more torque. I haven't tuned a A10 yet to know.

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those blue clutches are no good

Its a boosted app, thats literally what I was doing going back to the 50 states tune, then adjusting things I need in primarily the engine sections like commanded lambda, cat over temp, fans ect ect....leaving the trans as stock as possible, I did modify the pedal mapping a hair....to me the torque, torque/inverse tables ect look grossly under rated....

Ill compare mine to "stock file" again tomorrow before I try to make sure I didnt touch anything thats a variable there or miss anything I should....

I will report

If you want help, Post your tune and a log.

If you want to talk about a locked tune that you didn’t make, can’t share, can’t look at...

Post somewhere on a different forum.

I’m not being rude.

This forum is for tuners and people that want to be tuners (people still learning).

Very simple

Step 1: Post a tune and a log.

Step 2: Explain in detail what you are wanting to do/ accomplish.

Step 3: Follow the advice given and report back with information and logs.

All the other “word garbage” that is not part of the 3 steps, is what makes people that can actually help you not want to help you.

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Originally Posted by LastPlace

All the other “word garbage” that is not part of the 3 steps, is what makes people that can actually help you not want to help you.

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He obviously don't have files to post as his tune is locked hence his posting .csv.

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Originally Posted by veeefour

He obviously don't have files to post as his tune is locked hence his posting .csv.

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I understand exactly why he posted a .csv file, which is why I'm taking the time to explain how the forum works and how he can get actual help from us vs anything else that can not possibly help him.

Post #10 has his answer, post #11 explains "why"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LastPlace

I understand exactly why he posted a .csv file, which is why I'm taking the time to explain how the forum works and how he can get actual help from us vs anything else that can not possibly help him.

Post #10 has his answer, post #11 explains "why"

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I'm happy you got my ""sarcasm right"...

Anyways, guys beats shit - breaks shit, blames tooner...we all know the drill.

I am NOT nor would not blame the tuner?

I am trying to figure out IF its tune related or mechanical. I was told mechanical by tuner, spent another 3500 on a trans that was immaculate and then told by SAME tuner that this is normal behavior ( even after he told me to build it off the same logs LOL, and I provided SEVERAL logs of that same 2-3 rpm blip, I mean SAME down to the MPH initiated and the MPH recovered and DIDNT command a short shift to next gear).

I am here because I did have logs down to clutch elements ect and get advice if anyone could see if this was normal behavior ( hard for me to accept because of historical data but still they refused to even look at their own "special" log config). I have been using HPtuners for many years but this is another beast and generally, I could read enough to that I dont have to ask much. Im new to platform and tq based tuning in general...but this used to be a grass roots forum for enthusiast hoping to learn enough to tune themselves, I am here asking for a little help determining if I have a mechanical or tuning issue ( since this 1st gear leave tune is a variable ).

I do have a base file I can and will post, its the one Im working off of to try to help myself, since I am in Purgatory in that Ford doesnt care warranty is broke and Tuner doesnt care....P initially simply hoped someone had seen a similar log and or issue and could help at least point me in the correct direction...

I drove 2hrs to current location on the base file, surging was my biggest issue, just before my destination I did a small WOT..hey I didnt have knock but I did get a torque source 4 so it hit a limiter and I cant find it so far, spark cut with 7 and 26 which I "think" is trans tq truncation..moved that table 10%...

That wot and the previous logs are in CSV because I use a Ngauge, but I have a config for my VCM scanner I full plan to post the file and a log from VCM scanner. Its raining.
I can log ( cause insanely they and the superchargers stock tune both PREFERRED a VCM scanner LOG due to resolution), I been reading and reading since then. A lot to catch up on. I didnt know that Track Addict can now somehow be licensed to use my MPVI2 ( upgraded from a 1 pro ) to log "tuning" fields their legacy selection lack Knock Retard and I simply must have that one......

The OSS tables on my tune didnt make sense been trying to get that calculation closer to real world they were WAY over what commanded shift RPM would be ( maybe why I got the Tq Source 4 revlimit ). When I get it closer to what seems sane ill post it, a log from it and ill use this config to log theirs ( I mean I got an LOT of logging to get mapped points ect )...If theirs slip and my base doesnt it could still be just not as much torque getting applied ect....

Any help is appreciated, I am reading and reading and testing and going field by field thru this base tune. I simply since I was abandoned by tuner after I just reupped fees trying to get any insight on if I still have a mechanical problem after seemingly wasting 3500 or the tune has an issue.....btw brevity is not a strong suit I do apologize......but my god the complexity is insane.....

Thanks all...

So why you are looking for another opinion? Listen to your tuner. We don't know - we never seen your tune.

What warranty? Car is tuned.

Cause the tuner won't look at their OWN log config I sent. They are telling me the short shift is normal, when for 1 year it wasnt...and when I sent the logs in DOING it they had me REBUILD the trans, NOW that I wasted another $3500 and it's doing same thing ( that it didn't do 70 logs and a year before their 1st gear tune) it did before they had me take it to the track to verify, then rebuild the trans, seemingly for nothing, they now say its normal....

So they had me run it, then take to track for better grip, then when it did same thing had me rebuild it, then now instead of looking into it say its normal....after I supplied multi logs of it NOT doing that on their 2nd gear tune for last year...so THEY can't say its normal when they used same issue to say rebuild trans......so im here for help and a second opinion....

Now what was really dumb of me is I should have let emotion and economic grief from 3 engines and 2 trans in 10k miles ( 2 supposedly from the base tune ill provide and why I spent a 1000 on a tuner) before I posted, cause I absolutely should have posted vcm scanner log, with the issue replicated on their tune...before I asked for help....that was dumb of me better resolution and maybe more clues.....just thought it might be common issue...

This turned aggressive against me fast, im on old disabled man this car was my first new car ever and was supposed to be enjoyable with a little tinkering now and then. I drive to the track 2 or 3 times a year.. make 2 or 3 test n tune passes and watch the big boys....few hits in country with the cows...its been down more than up literally and had more trips with me or family members to hospitals than getting beat on.......

My tuner had it balls out, and I dont want it that way they don't tune any other way, I simply wanted to not blow the 3rd engine in a row and many convinced me to get a custom tune, I did here we are, im hoping to get this base file to drive good and be durable, care very little about ET......the tuners ive found are in competition and few people ask for less, I even had the largest pulley that would fit on blower flanges machined to remove belts...im literally turning it slow as possible...lol...

Thanks all