Tuning VVT cams for a lopey idle

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Originally Posted by Trbobuick

Do you know what table keeps them there until it sees speed? If I brake tq up to 2500 , that should be enough oil pressure to move them right ?

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Which Table , I have No idea I'm still trying to wrap my head around tuning the older stuff(04-05)

I can tell from experience with my 2014 Ram it had 428ci 392 based stroker , 3k edge converter, the 1st cam was the 392MDS cam, holding the truck at the line between 2.2k-3k the cam was at full advance in-till 20mph into the run...I can not say that a car will do the same thing, and I've been told a few times the the 2014's PCM is different from the others....after a month I pulled the cam went with the NON-MDS cam picked up 2ths with the same tune, put Comps #424 (use to be the 270 cam) in the truck locked the cam, my tuner re-tuned it.

I am not 100% sure but I think the PCM waits for the VSS to be greater than the limit set for idle (normally VSS<3 MPH is considered idle). On the GPEC2A controllers I think it gets the VSS signal from the ABS module.

nice thread,
I understand now that 13 intake is full retard and 115 is full advance exhaust, also understood its tuned for emissions not performance

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Attachment 94995

so if i move Intake table by after 1000 rpm it should perform better ?

or what is best way to adjust for performance for a beginner like me :)?

thank you guys

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Originally Posted by RedShark_JK

nice thread,
I understand now that 13 intake is full retard and 115 is full advance exhaust, also understood its tuned for emissions not performance

Attachment 94994

Attachment 94995

so if i move Intake table by after 1000 rpm it should perform better ?

or what is best way to adjust for performance for a beginner like me :)?

thank you guys

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RedShark, I'm not a tuner, I play around as use the butt dyno but here are what my cams are set at for WOT:
My intake cam settings at WOT are
128deg centerline @ 512rpm
107deg centerline @ 864rpm - 4960rpm
124deg centerline @ 5504rpm - 6816rpm

My exhaust cam settings at WOT are
117deg centerline @ 512rpm
110deg centerline @ 864rpm - 4352rpm
109deg centerline @ 4960rpm - 6816rpm

I'm also running a demanded 11.44 A/F at WOT, I always personally like to be on the rich side at WOT only because of my experience
with turbo cars and my old Neon R/T that used to see 9000rpm. This is a bit richer than you want to be, but I've also ran my V6 up to 7500rpm
with no issues. I'd probably can more HP if I leaned it out a bit.

And of course ive got spark advance changed along with other engine parameters.

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Originally Posted by brr

RedShark, I'm not a tuner, I play around as use the butt dyno but here are what my cams are set at for WOT:
My intake cam settings at WOT are
128deg centerline @ 512rpm
107deg centerline @ 864rpm - 4960rpm
124deg centerline @ 5504rpm - 6816rpm

My exhaust cam settings at WOT are
117deg centerline @ 512rpm
110deg centerline @ 864rpm - 4352rpm
109deg centerline @ 4960rpm - 6816rpm

I'm also running a demanded 11.44 A/F at WOT, I always personally like to be on the rich side at WOT only because of my experience
with turbo cars and my old Neon R/T that used to see 9000rpm. This is a bit richer than you want to be, but I've also ran my V6 up to 7500rpm
with no issues. I'd probably can more HP if I leaned it out a bit.

And of course ive got spark advance changed along with other engine parameters.

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brr,

Thank you for information :)
i"m pretty close to those numbers for WOT
what about PT tables you leave it as is ?

I never dyno my JK but numbers 260+ on wheels sounds great

would you like to post your tune to have a look ?

Br,
RedShark

For LS Chevy some guys do the chop by over and underspeed idle rpm and corrections. sounds good, but its terrible for motor and mounts....

You cant crash the valves unless you change something mechanically.

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Originally Posted by RandomEnthusiast

In all honesty I would personally check piston to valve clearances in the engine before even trying this.

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sorry, double post..

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Originally Posted by Hemituna

You cant crash the valves unless you change something mechanically.

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I?ve read some of your post concerning NN and VVT and you stated that it?s primarily used for emissions. On the modern hemi?s have so seen much gains playing with the VVT. I believe they are around 118-122 EX at Wot and 93 - 133 at part throttle. Any issues locking it at 120-122 for part throttle operation as well

This is a tune I was using....
I've got a Mopar CAI, MSD coils, NGK Iridium X plugs, PUG lower intake manifold, Mopar Catback, and this tune. The cam, spark, fuel tables are based off the Challenger 3.6 tune. I adjusted several things like the cam specs, WOT spark, WOT fuel, and a few misc. Cooling fans are based on my FWD transmission temps before the engine temps. Also the latest adjustments were done to support the BBK 78mm TB to prevent CEL's from too high of airflow codes. I'm currently looking into an E85 tune as my tune is based off of 93octane Vs E85.......
Also this tune disables the traction control and stability control as I needed those disabled for AutoCross races at Chrysler @ Carlisle because it kept pulling my throttle during the turns......

Note: My current tune, thanks to HPTuners is a little different as I was able to disable the torque management now Vs the other tuning software I was using. Also note my tune has had transmission tuning done for a FWD using the other tuning software as HPTuners doesn't support tuning of my transmission. So yes, I'm using 2 different tuning software programs to tune my car as one supports the transmission and the other does not.



Attachment 107894

Bump to the top, apparently there is a "Ghost Cam" tune available for the V6 Charger now?......but of course there are responses stating its fake....

https://youtu.be/sm_HkVORsuI

Sorry for bringing this back from the dead.......
The YouTube video of the Ghost Cammed 3.6 does sound good but I don't think the owner knows what's going on or its just a scam to make $. I took the chance and paid for the "So Called" tune so I could try it. The guy dropped the price down to $100 for a copy of his tune and low and behold it wasn't a copy of his tune but a copy of a setting. The setting I've tried to duplicate and I can not. I've contacted the owner of this video many times and I have even made a post on his video about the so called tune and he totally disappeared.
Here's a link to the video:

https://youtu.be/sm_HkVORsuI


And here is a copy of the "So Called" tune he sent me that costed me $100......

Attachment 112818

Any updated knowledge of how to get the intake & exhaust centerline to change at idle (0 vehicle speed)? Changing the "Stopped VSS" setting to 0?

Well, there's a table called VVT enable RPM. I'd try that one.

Well, there's no such setting on my tune file. Besides, engine RPM does not affect the requested angles if the vehicle is not moving.

Ok, sounds like you know what you're doing then.

I have a 2020 Gladiator blown. In that iteration of OS it gives you the option to turn on VVT at a given RPM. I have my idle, torque demand and spark raised to 710 RPM. The additional RPM helps with idle stability pulling air through the blower.

With that said I have actually been adjusting VVT on the dyno for power and on road to help alleviate small transition areas of power surge, like initial tip in. I can bleed the bypass tip surge by opening the exhast valve and taking out timing.

With all that said I have played with idle cam position, alot. Not for ghost camming, bit to help the jumpiness from a start. The biggest issue I have run into leaving overlap in, is the throttle airflow model is a closed loop PID, and it starts to compensate by moving the throttle and timing and sends it basically unstable. It does not really lope as much as the RPM bounces, and it sounds rediculous.

At the end of the day, with about 300 lines of recorded excell settings for throttle, VvT and Spark. 100 exhaust and 135 intake seem to be what the stock throttle body control will tolerate, at 710 RPM.

You have to change the catalyst and scavenging tables as well as it wil rock into these at longer idles and if not similar cause RPM bounce.

This does not get me a ghost tune bit it gets me a smooth step off, an the supercharger sounds glorious howling through the exhaust. So like a ghost, lol. Just not a ghost cam lol

Thanks for the feedback DAVECS2. I'm working with a 2012 Grand Cherokee - there's some differences in our tune files. There is nothing in my OS section of my file. I did several iterative changes of the miscellaneous cam angle tables to see what effect they had at idle. The only one had an effect was the Catalyst Heating Desired Angle, like you experienced. Oddly though, it will only stay in that position (I have both intake & exhaust at 113) for about 20 seconds after startup, then revert to some unknown table/setting (intake @ 130; Exhaust @ 115). If I rev the engine (still in Park), it will shift the cam positions back to the Catalyst table, but as soon as I let off the throttle, it reverts back to the unknown table. These aren't the lockpin settings either - I have changed those to no effect.

Bump: The Cammed 3.6 video I posted a link to has been removed....go figure

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Originally Posted by brr

Bump: The Cammed 3.6 video I posted a link to has been removed....go figure

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It has not been removed but says it is a private video and that I need to login to YT to be granted access.