HP tuners did me dirty on my first time bricked on very first flash

Hi all,
I just got my mpvi 2 in the mail last Saturday and was so excited to get started, when I checked the postal service tracking number Friday night and saw that the delivery was on time, I put my Tahoe on the battery charger, put my laptop on the charger and went to bed with visions of tuner fairies dancing in my head. I woke up Saturday morning to an alert that the package was delivered and I was so excited to start that I didn't even eat breakfast before opening the box and taking a look at the device that I was so excited to finally have in hand, but would later feel like smashing with the biggest hammer I could find in the shop. I ate breakfast then grabbed my laptop and installed the VCM software and decided to try and disable VATS for my very first action.

I headed outside with laptop, keys, mpvi 2 while still in my PJ's. I hooked up everything and read my PCM and saved the file then happily spent my 2 credits to license it without a second thought. Next, I disabled VATS and saved the change to a new file, turned on the ignition, clicked the write button and selected write entire, when I saw the BRICKABLE! text I paused for a moment and my heart raced a little and I thought for a second, "surely HP tuners has good QC and this never actually happens, I have a full battery in my truck, full battery in my laptop, error correcting RAM, xeon CPU, top-of-the-line and never crashes", I weighed my options if I actually did kill my daily driver and thought, "LET'S DO IT!"

Holding my breath, I see the erasing step and get nervous, "Oh man, there's no going back now!", then I see flashing...1%...2%...3%....3.2%....3.2%....3.2%... .......3.2%....."write failed", I screamed profanities that shall not be repeated here, cycled the ignition and tried again...1%...2%...2.1%....2.1%....2.1%..........2. 1%....."write failed", at this point I felt physically sick, I tried to crank the engine...nothing...now sitting there in the ever-increasing Kansas humidity and heat...I couldn't believe my eyes that my luck could be so bad.

I packed up, locked up and went back into the house and began what turned into spending the rest of my weekend googling and trying to find ways to revive my dead PCM, everything I tried failed miserably and I decided that I would have to start combing junkyards for a used PCM from a '03-'06 4x4 5.3L drive-by-wire 4.10 rear-end truck. That was plan A, plan B was to buy a background debugger that I could solder to my dead PCM and possibly flash it back to at the very least, a state where the PCM bootloader would talk to me. On Monday I located a wiring harness so I could do this on the bench next time and I located a PCM at another junkyard, but would have to wait for the junkyard to pull it for me, they wouldn't let me sneak back and do the simple 5 minute job myself. On Tuesday I got the call that my '03 pcm from a GMC yukon was ready, I went and picked it up and ran home as fast as I could and popped it in my truck...cranked it and fired right up then just as quickly it sputtered to a halt..."crap", I thought, "I need to disable VATS", then I fired up hp tuners and read the pcm...and you know where this goes...I go to write my VATS-disabled tune and..."DOH! I already spent my credits to brick my original PCM"...I thought about it for a second and relented that the only way I was going to get this turd to run was to shell out another $100. I grabbed the largest crowbar I could find and pried open my wallet and disgustedly clicked the checkout button. powered up my bench harness and in a deja-vu, licensed the file, selected write entire and clicked write. Palms sweaty and heart racing i watched every 0.1% of the flash for 4 minutes and FINALLY! "success"..."cleaning up"...I ran out to my truck as fast as I could with the new PCM and snapped it in and turned the key....vrooom! listening for a few seconds..."yep still running!".

Now I'm feeling slightly better that my truck is running again, but still so angry about the wasted money.

Now I sit here in the wee hours of Thursday morning writing this as I'm considering if there is any way I'll get my 2 credits back, now I'm even wondering if I even manage to revive my dead PCM will I get the tune the box that I already paid for the privilege of tuning? Hard to know, I'll have to flash a bin from someone else if the background debugger actually works, because I don't have my original bin file and hpt won't let you extract it, which is a really lame move on hp tuner's part. so the question will be, if I unbrick my original PCM using a factory OS bin from someone else will HP tuners do the morally-right thing and allow me to use the license with the hardware I paid to use it with?

Only the next few days will tell...

If there is a way to get a bin from an hpt or if it will respect the PCM's serial number...we will see.

The next week will decide if I praise hp tuners or curse them in every public forum I can find.


sincerely,
A sour IT guy that just wanted to have a little weekend fun

a. sounds like your 17 year old vehicle has wiring issues and flashing via bench harness was a good decision in the end
b. write entire wasn't necessary and has nothing to do with qc on our end, the brickable warning is just that a warning that there is nothing we can do if something goes wrong during the write entire flash
c. open a support ticket with your concerns and we'll be happy to assist you further, keep using that bench harness though as your oem wiring is likely no good IMHO.

Bet you have an aftermarket radio or aftermarket remote start.

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Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

a. sounds like your 17 year old vehicle has wiring issues and flashing via bench harness was a good decision in the end
b. write entire wasn't necessary and has nothing to do with qc on our end, the brickable warning is just that a warning that there is nothing we can do if something goes wrong during the write entire flash
c. open a support ticket with your concerns and we'll be happy to assist you further, keep using that bench harness though as your oem wiring is likely no good IMHO.

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are you saying "write entire" can cause this more than likely? ive been seeing this alot and it makes me REALLY nervous to even use it . what about on a ford where "write entire" is the ONLY way it will flash? there is no other way that ive seen

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Originally Posted by 2xLS1

Bet you have an aftermarket radio or aftermarket remote start.

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is that a thing? curious because a LOT of people have aftermarket radios

It is on 03-07 classic trucks/suvs. Not the aftermarket radio so much but the aftermarket chime adapter that is installed between the a/m radio and wire harness that the aftermarket radio necessitates using. Some don't interfere, and some are total shit. Aftermarket remote starts usually tap into the data line on the ALDL that will screw with reading and flashing.

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Originally Posted by 2xLS1

It is on 03-07 classic trucks/suvs. Not the aftermarket radio so much but the aftermarket chime adapter that is installed between the a/m radio and wire harness that the aftermarket radio necessitates using. Some don't interfere, and some are total shit. Aftermarket remote starts usually tap into the data line on the ALDL that will screw with reading and flashing.

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No crap? So this is a known issue? Because yea, I have an aftermarket radio and chime adapter. A disclaimer about this GM-specific issue popping up in VCM editor would have been real nice when I clicked on the brickable text to read the details (which I did do). FML

Explains why I'm not having issue writing calibrations yesterday and today because I pulled the radio fuse to save power while I was playing around trying to unbrick my PCM and have not plugged it in yet.

Yep, it's a known issue. How well this information gets read about is hard to say.

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Originally Posted by Bill@HPTuners

a. sounds like your 17 year old vehicle has wiring issues and flashing via bench harness was a good decision in the end
b. write entire wasn't necessary and has nothing to do with qc on our end, the brickable warning is just that a warning that there is nothing we can do if something goes wrong during the write entire flash
c. open a support ticket with your concerns and we'll be happy to assist you further, keep using that bench harness though as your oem wiring is likely no good IMHO.

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b. I work in the dietary supplement industry and qc is a big deal, when qc screws up, people can die. I will happily call into question the "quality" of any QC department, because it is run by humans and humans make mistakes. much of my professional time is spent debugging software, so I have seen how easy it is to have problems hiding in a dark corner. My replacement PCM from an '03 truck that I installed in my 15 year old '05 truck did not work after setting VATS from "serial" to "disabled" and writing using the "Write VIN/tunerlock/VATS" option, so tell me again how "write entire" was not needed? if "Write VIN/tunerlock/VATS" was not it then what was. The fact that it includes the term "VATS" is pretty obvious and if it is for something other than disabling VATS then that = a UX epic fail. After doing "write entire" I was finally able to start my truck, but the "Write VIN/tunerlock/VATS" definitely DID NOT work, so QC? Please check this? If you need my HPT files before and after I changed the VATS setting I can get you those, I saved both versions. I actually save in increments very very often, I already have 21 versions saved after only 2 days of working on it.

Also, I would hit up your UX people and add a warning somewhere when an '03-'07 GM vehicle is detected that after-market radios and door chime modules can cause write failures. Apparently this is a known-issue...see 2xLS1's reply above. Because yes, I do have a door chime module and I would bet that was the source of interference. That is beyond screwed up that a door chime module can cause a bricked PCM if you try to flash it.

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

Yep, it's a known issue. How well this information gets read about is hard to say.

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WOW...just, WOW. How has HP tuners not put a warning in VCX editor when they detect an '03-'07 GM vehicle is being written to!?!?!?! Known issues this serious really need to be published inside the application and made obvious when someone goes to write for the first time. It's not unusual to have aftermarket radios in vehicles this old. All I would have had to do is simply pull the radio fuse after the first failed write and it probably would have worked.


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr! That makes me so angry!!!!!

To me it's not something they have to write in there. They made this stuff work on factory vehicles and you changed stuff on it, not them.

We the users found this stuff out over the years and this information is floating out there in many threads but it's not in a sticky thread as far as I am aware.

The write entire to write calibration only thing I am with Bill here. Setting the VATS under the systems tab to "none" only requires a write calibration only a P59 computer. You could have done a calibration only write on your bench harness and it would have worked.

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Originally Posted by 5FDP

To me it's not something they have to write in there. They made this stuff work on factory vehicles and you changed stuff on it, not them.

We the users found this stuff out over the years and this information is floating out there in many threads but it's not in a sticky thread as far as I am aware.

The write entire to write calibration only thing I am with Bill here. Setting the VATS under the systems tab to "none" only requires a write calibration only a P59 computer. You could have done a calibration only write on your bench harness and it would have worked.

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Then what is with the option "Write VIN/tunerlock/VATS"? That is a UI design fail. It is also foolish for an expensive product that should be highly supported to ignore the fact that so many people have aftermarket radios and that there is a known issue.

The responsible thing to do would be to add a notice in the application that says to watch out for aftermarket radios in 2003-2007 gm vehicles and add hints that highlight the write mode that is required in order to commit the latest changes.

bricked PCMs are no laughing matter and should not be shrugged off and making an argument that even slightly suggests "you deserved it" is an elitist attitude that has no place in paid and supported software. It's a common attitude with free software, but for the sort of money a person has to shell out for this, it is expected that every effort will be made to prevent disasters by including obvious warnings about known issues such as this.

hp tuners also has to combat outdated and incorrect information, a youtube tutorial from 2019 showed that write entire was required, a simple in-app tip that shows what type of write is required to flash the changes made since the last flash would be a major help!

Write entire is only required for changing any or all of the OS. ie 07-13 truck/suv VATS is in the OS tab, not the system tab so a WE is required on those to change the vATS status.

I really hate threads like this. Hpt provides a tool that you use at your own risk. It is your responsibility to research what you need to do or not do. You 100% proved the issue was not hpt, by bench flashing the ecm, and it working properly.

There are many things that you can do and destroy your truck, is hpt supposed to write disclaimers for everything. Turning off your knock sensors, and blindly plugging 40 degrees of timing into the ecm at wot will melt your pistons. Should there be a disclaimer for that?

Is this a hpt problem, or is this a "i blindly jumped into something without properly researching what i was actually doing, and it bit me" problem?

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Originally Posted by mbray01

Is this a hpt problem, or is this a "i blindly jumped into something without properly researching what i was actually doing, and it bit me" problem?

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HPtuners puts up warnings for some ECUs that are "known brickable", so there is some known distinction; I don't think it's too much to ask HPtuners to explain what that distinction is, and make it known before purchase (IE, in the supported vehicles list). If the recommendation has to be "program with bench harness only", so be it - but tell us that up front.

In my experience so far, I've found the software and hardware to be excellent, but finding information to be a little like pulling teeth. Even the online help doesn't seem to really apply to the MPVI2.

I am sure that HPtuners will do right by dragonsmoke6, whether it be by crediting back, refunding or de-bricking... but it would serve them much better to avoid that on the front end rather than coming from behind to fix things. Sounds to me like dragonsmoke6 would have been capable and happy to build the bench harness first if it was clear that was the safe way to go with his particular ECU.

I am the product support supervisor for a company that builds specialized electronic and mechanical parts and systems for vehicles in the $300k - $3M USD range. It doesn't matter how good our products are, eventually we will build a bad one; at that point what's important is how we support it.

HPtuners has a GREAT product, but the support structure is a bit of a mess. I'm happy with the product I purchased and even enjoy using it.. I just wish finding the right information was a little easier.

This thread is stupid. Aside from being written like a child, it screams "I shouldn't have any accountability for anything I do". HPT is not responsible for keeping up with all the BS that aftermarket equipment can cause. Editing a vehicle module isn't really for a novice despite how easy it is to get equipment to do it.

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Originally Posted by dann

hptuners puts up warnings for some ecus that are "known brickable", so there is some known distinction; i don't think it's too much to ask hptuners to explain what that distinction is, and make it known before purchase (ie, in the supported vehicles list). If the recommendation has to be "program with bench harness only", so be it - but tell us that up front.

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the problem is that the ecm isnt known brickable

the op's problem is the aftermarket devices he has installed on his vehicle caused the issue. No way on earth a company like hpt can add disclaimers for things like this, the disclaimer list would be obnoxiously long, and nobody would read it anyway.

HPTuners is notorious for horrible help files, outdated information, lackluster product information and bait and switch style product addons. That being said, they do have great software and good hardware. If the rest of the company would catch up that would be amazing! Rumor has it they type the phrase "No ETA currently" 9 thousand times per hour.

I think HPTuners will make good on this but once again their help/support/documentation needs updated and KNOWN ISSUES should be stickied at the least.

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Originally Posted by mbray01

the problem is that the ecm isnt known brickable

the op's problem is the aftermarket devices he has installed on his vehicle caused the issue. No way on earth a company like hpt can add disclaimers for things like this, the disclaimer list would be obnoxiously long, and nobody would read it anyway.

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Then I'm confused; why do some get the brickable warning and others not? And why would 5FDP (great concert, BTW) claim it's a known issue?

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Originally Posted by thegeneralLee

I think HPTuners will make good on this but once again their help/support/documentation needs updated and KNOWN ISSUES should be stickied at the least.

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Isn't that what the user help forum is for? To share information? Sorry, we cannot keep up with these oddball devices that are plugged inline to the vehicles wiring and expect us to self document it. Just assume that if you've screwed with the wiring you could run into issues.

Additionally the OP wouldn't have run into issues if he had done write cal only like he should have and this whole thread would be a mute point.

Honestly I didn't even know about this inline module that was mentioned earlier in the thread but if someone were to post a link to the device or a picture of it I would be happy to make a sticky about it. I've stickied hundreds of threads over the years(that even the support staff references) but we still get the same questions asked thousands of times a year so whether the stickies actually work is a whole nother issue.

So with all that said if you've got an older GM and don't know the wiring history of the vehicle do write cal only like the help file states ;)