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I've put some ID1300x injectors in a 2016 Hellcat. Used ID provided data to get started. Dialing in the injectors I have the trims to around +/- 3-5% cruising and the various inj pw areas.
However at idle the trims are +10 to 12% at .6 inj pw. This same pw cruising is +/- 2%. How do you account for a scenario like this?
@Speedy! With ID1300's can you be sure the Inj PW Min is set to .125ms as you stated above its showing .6
Inj PW Min is .220 ms per the data provided from ID.
on my SRT4, i used the ID data and had to tweak the VE to dial in the trim at idle..
don't forget to use there xls to scale the injector pulsewidht for coldstart... and the table for voltage too.
It's a Hellcat, they don't use VE.
looks similar to my ve.. i justed added a point or two in the idle area
pulled from this Hellcat tune, https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...d-boost-jitter
Attachment 106661
It's a bit odd honestly from what I've seen. Yes VE tables are in the tune file, but it doesn't appear they are used from the testing I've done. Maybe a NN thing?
Make sure you clear the adaptive after changing injector data, otherwise it'll be tough to dial in initially. It takes a lot of driving to clear.
Mine doesn't take any driving to clear, I just do it through scanner and it's instant.
I missed it .you are using the x not the x2's . Are the Injector Offset data correct as there is a resolution difference in cells starting from 6v in ID and HC starts from 5VQuote:
Originally Posted by Speedy!
Speedy you are correct, about NN not using the VE tables. If you aren't tuning using VE/Speed Density then you have to scale by logging a making changes and so forth.
Thanks for confirming on NN not using VE. Yes, I've logged and tweaked until the STFT are within 2-3% while cruising or WOT. The issue I've run in to is that at .6 - .7 inj pw cruising the trims are within 2-3%. However, when I come to a stop and idle or put the car in Park it hits that same inj pw area and the trims are +10% and it starts to stack up in LTFT. I'm guessing it's air flow related some how at idle vs cruise/light throttle but so far nothing I've tried solves it.
You have to rescale the the fuel tables, resolution is terrible in factory form! I’ve had 1000rwhp hellcats and everyone of them the fuel tables need to be rescaled and trims are perfect
I'm not sure what you mean by rescale the fuel tables or factory resolution being terrible. The injector scaling on the pw axis matches with what Injector Dynamics publishes. Fuel mass is obviously tweaked to get trims to as close to zero as possible. I called ID about re-adjusting their pw scale and they said DO NOT do that as the injector data provided was correct for the injectors they sell. Are they incorrect and more resolution is needed on the pw axis?
Speedy, I've followed you for years now and I still don't know shit about this stuff, but I can tell you this from my own 426 stroked Hellcat Ram, the injector data from FIC1000 that was started with is not even recognizable with the injector data in the final tune. I'm not using NN, mines VE, but maybe more resolution is needed with yours too. I'm just freaking dumb founded no one has any help for you. This is so common of an upgrade... Hellcat forum? OST Dyno, AJ? I know ANN tuning is totally different from VE but I would share my tune with you so atleast you can see how different FIC data was initially, and how the scaling ended--it's not even recognizable now to the original data. I think what happens is what is used as the constant. They may start with PW and adjust, but then switch to weight to fine tune...
Try adjusting VE table 44281.
Its named VE ECT Multiplier but I cant see any reference to ECT (there is a modifier beside it that has ECT)
So I use it as a VE adjuster for rpm/vacuum.
Ha, thanks for following a long. Mike from OST trained me on tuning the HEMI platform, but I'm far from any kind of expert for sure. I try to bother him as a last resort to be honest but have pinged him on this and he indicated it's a reasonably common problem to come across. Based on the tune data, I'm not sure how rescaling will help really, again I'm not an expert, but if the inj pw is the same in both areas and at idle it's adding fuel and at cruise it's near zero for trims, it's still the same pw in the end. Maybe I'm missing something though.Quote:
Originally Posted by pointofview_365
I see the table you're referencing. I'll give that a try and see what happens, assuming bigger values in the table mean add more fuel and lower values mean take fuel away in laymen's terms?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemituna
Thanks for this suggestion. I still have some testing to confirm, but appears this did the trick on prelim testing. I used data from other rows in the table to adjust the rpm and kPa range at idle and so far so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemituna
It's odd that the standard VE tables seem to be ignored with ANN but this table appears to be used.