TC Duty Cycle tables for 4T60E in '97 Bonneville?

Just had the 4T60E in my '97 Bonnie rebuilt, and we elected to use the TC that has the paper-lined lockup clutch. According to the builder this type of lockup clutch is only usable if PWM is disabled to allow a full-on, no-slip lockup. The PCM isn't set up to do this at the moment, and unfortunately the gentleman doing my tuning (screen name PDXGTP) is telling me the TC Duty Cycle tables are not showing up in the tuning file for my car. He can see the tables on his '98 GTP, but not for my '97 Bonnie. Anybody know if this parameter is stored somewhere else for my car, or if there is an alternative way to tune for a full TC lockup? Thanks.

97's seem to be left out at the moment. An existing request thread can be found in the request sub-forum.

Thanks a lot for the reply. I'll put something in the request forum.

Sounds good.. but I was saying that there is already a request in there (not sure if I started the thread.. but I know I posted in it).

Sorry about the confusion... nothing like redundancy redundancy ;)

On a related note, I emailed Bill at HPT and he got back to me very quickly. He had me email my file to them so they could see if it's possible to put something in to control TC duty cycle. I sure hope they have success, because I'm limited to slow speeds and manual 3rd gear to limit TC lockup right now.

Out of curiousity, do the '97s GPs have the 4T60E or the 4T65E? I'm wondering if the duty cycle tables are unavailable because of something funky with the 4T60E.

Well.. It is kinda odd.. If I remember correctly, the 97 GP GT still uses the 4T60E (the only year of GT form 97-03 that way)..

However. The 97 GTP uses the 4T65E-HD just like the 98-03 GTPs.

Ben,
Did you get the second email I set you?
HPT has the box in the controls/trans with TCC-PWM on/off and value adjusts.
Either TCC Duty or TCC PWM will help to remedy this issue. I'd love to see HPT unlock eiher parameter.

Yes I did get your second email. I would also like to see them unlock the PWM features, as this seems like it would be extremely helpful in this case.

And bilemke, it sounds like the GPs are just like the Bonnevilles. In 97 the L36 Bonnies got the 4T60E while the L67 versions received the 65E. In 98 GM decided to switch over the entire line. I guess they had to phase it in for some reason?

Still dealing with this issue, and wondering if anyone else has insight. As far as we know the TCC duty cycle isn't supported for the '97 model year, and I'm willing to think outside the box for a work-around solution. Is it possible to make my PCM think it's really a '98? Would this solve the problem? Or is this really an issue of software support for the 4T60E vs. the 4T65E?

What other options might I have? I'm posting my file if anyone wants to dig around in it. Thanks for the help.

Big News -

I talked to Aaron today about my own issues with trying to get the 1997 PCM to 1)Act like it has an L67 and 2) Act like it has a 4t-60. Aside from the additions the -65 has electrically, the solenoid pinouts between the two PCMs (one with the 60, one with a 65) are the same. He suggested running the 65 tables for my application. I fished around and it looks like the pressure motor can be disabled in the 65 file.

Not sure if it will work, but its worth a shot.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sandrock

Big News -

I talked to Aaron today about my own issues with trying to get the 1997 PCM to 1)Act like it has an L67 and 2) Act like it has a 4t-60. Aside from the additions the -65 has electrically, the solenoid pinouts between the two PCMs (one with the 60, one with a 65) are the same. He suggested running the 65 tables for my application. I fished around and it looks like the pressure motor can be disabled in the 65 file.

Not sure if it will work, but its worth a shot.

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Thanks for the email you sent. I'm excited to try this, as it seems it is supposed to work. Hopefully it will give me the parameters I'm looking for, as we could just be SOL being a '97 model year. I'll give it a shot, though!

I tried the method on my freakshow tune, and aside from the higher-than-normal shift points, I was able to get to third gear. (Keep in mind my tune is in its infant stages and nowhere near "there" just yet...the test drive was just around the block), it seemed to work. Though I have had no chance to try the TCC yet.

You will need to disable the shift force motor, and maybe the input shaft speed sensor, since the -60 does not have these. After that, I suppose it's just the matter of plugging in the shift strategies of the -60.

In your tune are you able to see the TCC Duty Cycle tables now? That's specifically what I'm looking for. If I can't get to them I'm still screwed.

Thanks!

Just checked it, and unfortuneately not in the 1997 file. I opened a 2000 GTP file and I could....wonder if that function just isn't available for 1997, no matter what transmission?

EDIT - Looks like that is the case my friend. NO 97 file has that option, but shows up in 1998. Looks like if we want that function, we are going to have to custom make a harness, or spend alot of time repinning the ones we have, to accept a 1998 PCM.

Or we can bug the powers that be to unlock this feature if it is available. Though with the -65 no even having the option, I doubt it is.

Thanks for checking into that. Looks like I might be back at square one :(

I put in a direct request to Bill at HPT a few weeks ago and he said they would take a look at it. I checked back with them a couple days ago and he told me they haven't messed around with it yet, but I still have hope they might unlock it. I feel like such a weenie for putting a different torque converter in the car without knowing 100000000% that I coud tune for it!

By the way, why couldn't we do some sort of copy/paste job with a '98 or later 4T65 config file? I don't know the software very well, but would that even be possible?

What other options might I have? You mentioned repinning a harness to mate with a '98 PCM... how tough would this be?

Thanks!

Wouldn't be tough...just time consuming. It might be a better option to re-harness instead of re-pinning. I'll look into it later.

Is there any way to copy '98 GTP transmission tables over the tables in my file? Any chance this would give me the functionality I'm looking for?

Thanks.

TTT

Any ideas? I'm willing to explore all options... Anybody know exactly what it would take to use a '98 PCM for a '65E in a '97 with a '60E? I'll rewire or re-harness if I need to.... I've just got to get this car back in good shape.

I have note read about it being done in a Grand Prix yet.. Otherwise I would comment further. The HPT guys might know more about the switches in the calibration to make such a thing happen though.

I have a sister with a 97 Grand Prix GT that is in the same boat as you. I have a 97 GTP without someone of the TCC tables mapped as well.. I have found some through other means, but not all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bilemke

I have a sister with a 97 Grand Prix GT that is in the same boat as you. I have a 97 GTP without someone of the TCC tables mapped as well.. I have found some through other means, but not all.

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Can you elaborate on this a little more? Which of the other TCC tables did you find through other means? Is there anything you have found that could disable or modify the pulse width modulation lockup?