Doing a tune for a 2012 mustang GT with Boss Intake Manifold, Vortech V3 3.6" pulley, Injector Dynamics ID1000 injectors, and JMS BAP, now when putting in the parameters for the ID1000s is it a straight copy and paste from the data sheets or do the values need to be modified for use in HPTuners? Fuel system is a standard return-less system.
Thanks!
Sean
Originally posted in VCMEditor forum meant to post here apologies!
Most values are inverted, you'll need to flip them somehow, or type them in manually.
I wish they were copy & paste
That's not so bad i just wanted to make sure i don't need to alter the values since the car is boosted and has a BAP, i'm fine inputting the tables manually :)
The data is in their sheets but inverted, I usually type them out manually at least once, then I can copy them from that file going forward when ever someone has the same injectors. Keep in mind you want to use the stock fuel system values, not the 39 or return style data
stock is return style not return less
Coyotes are all return-less fuel systems from factory. Pressure is controlled by a small pressure relief valve in the hat that cranks open at 58psiQuote:
Originally Posted by decipha
What you just described is a return style system. The regulator is mounted in the tank.
Coyotes are all returnless systems. They only have one fuel line to the engine. There is no return line back to the tank. Fuel pressure is regulated through the FPDM (Fuel Pump Driver Module), which is an electrical device designed to keep the desired pressure at the injectors and controls the power sent to the fuel pump.Quote:
Originally Posted by decipha
lol no, that's corvette/GM stuff your talking about. That is a return style system but Ford's are set up differently.Quote:
Originally Posted by decipha
the stock coyote fuel system is a RETURN STYLE SYSTEM.
The regulator is mounted in the fuel tank.
The FPDM is only used to reduce voltage at low loads as to not heat up fuel excessively as per emissions requirements and common sense.
There is no fuel rail pressure sensor to regulate pump voltage for a returnless setup as would be required.
If yall do not understand how the most basic of fuel systems function such as that on the coyote or any other vehicle then you have absolutely no business at all trying to tune anything.
The 11+ Coyotes are mechanical returnless systemsQuote:
Originally Posted by decipha
The pressure relief in the tank is not a regulator, it will do nothing to "regulate" the pressure, it is there to crank open when pressure exceeds ~58psi, the ECM send your voltage to the FPDM who then sends it to the pump, it will flow all the fuel it's capable of flowing at that voltage.
mechanical returnless = return with the regulator mounted in the tank
What you describe makes absolutely no sense at all. Please explain to me how it can run less than 58psi ? Common sense should tell you that a defined fuel pressure is required. Since the ecu has no way of knowing that how could it possibly function?
Quote:
Originally Posted by decipha
It's two speed mechanical returnless. You seem to be under the impression that the only true returnless fuel system is an electronically regulated/turbine pump assembly. Mechanical returnless, there is no return line external to the fuel pump assembly which is what makes it returnless.Quote:
Originally Posted by decipha
Mechanical returnless is Ford's definition of the system.
Attachment 90920
2011+ Mustang 5.0s come stock with returnless style fuel system. Everything else stated by others is correct. No fuel is returned to the tank. 58psi. Two speeds (idle/load). People convert them to return style systems with 600+ rwhp applications (which is maybe all that you have dealt with?)Quote:
Originally Posted by decipha
Since you made that comment quoted above, does this mean you are retiring from tuning? lol :P
But he's right - you are mixing things.Quote:
Originally Posted by decipha
stock is returnless.
The fuel flow comes from being the unknown in the ratio relationship of the target lambda and airflow. Rail Pressure is inferred from fuel flow.
If fuel returned to the tank, the fuel flow to the rails would not be reliable and the FPDM would not have any way of deriving more than a high and low duty cycle that used the relief all the time. Stock the 58PSI relief valve should only open on rare occasions, not constantly.
Go to a return style defeats all this logic based on airflow and fuel flow. You should be using a 1:1 MAP referenced regulator to keep the difference between your manifold and rail pressure constant so your injectors flow at a single constant rate. Hence all the 1"s in the multiplier v pressure tables and the inferred rail pressure data becoming meaning less. I would call the difference base pressure, but ID's data seems to refer to base as the difference plus 14.7 or 1 standard atmosphere(which varies all around the world and different elevations). So their data isn't based in an absolute scale.
You can do boost only reference in turbo and centri. setups, but you would need to use the stock style data with multipliers for different pressures and get the inferred rail pressure tables reflecting the true numbers. In short its a ton of work monitoring external sensors and adjusting, with double checking you are not throwing the trims off. Its also flawed if you are not using a pipe and known good MAF curve.