Assistance converting Cam specs into HP Tuners tables

[christianreid22]

Here's a little bit of what the NNT will do. I've got my network tuned fairly well for a Flyin Ryan Performance "Mark 82" camshaft (.602/.602 lift, duration @ .050 220I/228E, 113 LSA I think). Fuel trims and AFR are within a few percent in most places (and within 2 percent at WOT). The graphs show the MK82 and the stock 392 cam, both at pressure ratio @0.97 (basically WOT). You can see that at the fully advanced position and ~5000 RPM (the red lines on the graphs), the stock network settings are off by nearly 20%. At 6000 RPM, stock network is off by 30%! Keep in mind this is only a mild cam.

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I’ve always been told to disable NN when changing the cam. Can you provide more clarification on the process you used to keep NN on with the Mark 82 cams I’ve been leaning on the fence purchasing that cam, or the Tomahawk.. just the worry of tuning is keeping me grounded.

[LilSick]

Here's a little bit of what the NNT will do...

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hey rocky great info. Who created those graphs? I do not see why ve with a mark82 cam would be unchanged by retarding 14 deg (5k rpm up), but retarding a 392 (which has very similar specs) the same 14 deg (imaginary line between green and yellow) would make such a large difference in ve???

I too look forward to your break down of tuning the 5 nnt tables if you are around and have time to do so

thanks

[rockystock]

If you're currently running a stock camshaft with VVT, you'll want to eventually tune using the NNT anyway. If you turn off VVT and the neural network on a stock cam, you'll lose quite a bit of Hp/Tq above about 3000 RPM.

The process for tuning the aftermarket cam is the same as tuning the stock cam. You just need to know what values the PCM sees for the cam angles at fully advanced and fully retarded, and use those values as your new training values under the "Neural Network" tab.

I can't get into it too much more at the moment, but I have stumbled through it in earlier threads. Here's a recent one that also links to a still earlier thread: https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...991#post697991

Let me know If you want another go at explaining it.

[rockystock]

hey rocky great info. Who created those graphs? I do not see why ve with a mark82 cam would be unchanged by retarding 14 deg (5k rpm up), but retarding a 392 (which has very similar specs) the same 14 deg (imaginary line between green and yellow) would make such a large difference in ve???

I too look forward to your break down of tuning the 5 nnt tables if you are around and have time to do so

thanks

I made the graphs in Excel - the data for the Mk 82 is from my own tuning. My VE above 5000 RPM looks very similar for all 5 cam angles with the Mk82 - not sure if that is a common feature of the cam or if my setup might be airflow-limited somehow. I can't say much for the stock 392 cam, other than you're seeing 38 degrees of cam phasing in the stock data, vs. only 14 in the Mk82. Also, the stock cam was designed for emissions as well.

[LilSick]

did you compare rate of lift for each?

[rockystock]

did you compare rate of lift for each?

No, but the Mk82 requires FRP's springs as well, for whatever that's worth.

[PurpleRam]

did you compare rate of lift for each?

FRP , is very tight lipped about lift specs ,

[rockystock]

FRP , is very tight lipped about lift specs ,

I think the Mk82 is .602/.602, 220/228, 114 LSA. I guess one could tease out the rate of lift from those specs...

[LilSick]

I think the Mk82 is .602/.602, 220/228, 114 LSA. I guess one could tease out the rate of lift from those specs...

unfortunately that is not how it works

[LilSick]

FRP , is very tight lipped about lift specs ,

there is a easy fix for that... do not buy from them and tell everyone ya know why ya didn't

its been years (close to decades) since these engines (and aftermarket cams) have been avail

does not take someone with a short block on a stand 30 mins to chart out what they have