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Thread: Tuning for bolt-ons with ANN help

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training
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    Jan 2022
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    Tuning for bolt-ons with ANN help

    Hi everyone, I understnad the process of creating a histo in the scanner that mirrors the INJ PW table while logging for Fuel Mass in Cyl 1. To keep the functionality and stability of ANN in tact, how can I be sure tuning through INJ PW x LTFT + STFT Histo is making the correct changes to increase power input?

    For example, when tuning a stock vehicle, I would want to change the factory stoich from .072 (13.89 AFR) to command .068 (14.7 AFR) then log LTFT + STFT % against Fuel Mass, correct?
    I understand for WOT I need to do this as well but instead log lambda eq error with a wideband and make the following changes (assuming I set my target stoich in the PE Tables)

    Now lets say I add in long tube headers, catless mids, larger throttlr body, or a ported manifold: I would repeat the same process ^^^^ until I get the P/T fuel trims to within 3%, correct?

    What about WOT Spark? How much further can we advance the factory WOT Tables? I understand around 2* is the norm for a 93 tune, what about 91? e85?

    I am very aware on tuning VE Tables, but for the cars I come across that still have ANN enabled, I would like to maintain it. Can anyone elaborate or confirm this information for me?

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training
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    Jan 2022
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    Quote Originally Posted by christianreid22 View Post
    Hi everyone, I understnad the process of creating a histo in the scanner that mirrors the INJ PW table while logging for Fuel Mass in Cyl 1. To keep the functionality and stability of ANN in tact, how can I be sure tuning through INJ PW x LTFT + STFT Histo is making the correct changes to increase power input?

    For example, when tuning a stock vehicle, I would want to change the factory stoich from .072 (13.89 AFR) to command .068 (14.7 AFR) then log LTFT + STFT % against Fuel Mass, correct?
    I understand for WOT I need to do this as well but instead log lambda eq error with a wideband and make the following changes (assuming I set my target stoich in the PE Tables)

    Now lets say I add in long tube headers, catless mids, larger throttlr body, or a ported manifold: I would repeat the same process ^^^^ until I get the P/T fuel trims to within 3%, correct?

    What about WOT Spark? How much further can we advance the factory WOT Tables? I understand around 2* is the norm for a 93 tune, what about 91? e85?

    I am very aware on tuning VE Tables, but for the cars I come across that still have ANN enabled, I would like to maintain it. Can anyone elaborate or confirm this information for me?


    Anyone??

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    May 2018
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    with ann you can not change the stoich.

    log spark and retard and you know your red lines.

    the rest is pe correction if you not using ve.

  4. #4
    Potential Tuner
    Join Date
    Nov 2016
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    So, how are the "box tuners" getting that claimed 20-30hp gains, with a 93 tune? If they can't do it with WOT lambda (no way to log Wideband if customer does not have one installed) are they just adding WOT spark advance?
    I logged my stock tune and, under WOT, KR and was actually pulling several degrees, up in the 4000+RPM cells. I've since pulled those cells back a little (based on KR values) and am no longer seeing anything more than .5? of KR.
    2014 Blacktop Challenger, 5.7L, sick speed

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training
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    Quote Originally Posted by f.creek-ranch View Post
    with ann you can not change the stoich.

    log spark and retard and you know your red lines.

    the rest is pe correction if you not using ve.
    Not sure where you are referencing this material from.. you can 100% change the fuel stoich with ANN on. Plenty of threads on here that identify tuning through WOT by changing INJ PW.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by christianreid22 View Post
    Not sure where you are referencing this material from.. you can 100% change the fuel stoich with ANN on.
    Yes you can change the fuel stoich numbers on all FCA vehicles. But almost all use narrow-band O2 sensors. So the fuel trims will just bring them back to actual stoich (lambda 1.0) in closed loop, regardless of what numbers you put.

    In open loop, a change in the stoich values can result in an actual change in the measured lambda.

  7. #7