Gen5 torque control woes

[edcmat-l1]

Hello everybody,

I've been doing this a long time. Some of the old timers will recognize my screen name. I've been tuning since long before these GEN5s came out. I've tuned at least a hundred of these things probably into the HUNDREDS. Big cam cars, big power Z06s, etc. This one has me stumped.

2017 Silverado, stage 2 cam. I've done way more aggressive cams in general in these things. Virtual torque is pretty close, it idles at roughly 15 degrees. VVE is close it will run in speed density and it's a copy and paste from a known good file of my own for the same cam.

In gear only it has an annoying timing dip. I can't seem to fix it or even data log exactly where it's coming from. In park it will idle all day long and never do it.

Not posting the tune file so don't ask. Just looking for suggestions of where to look or if anyone has seen similar. I've tried pretty much all the torque pids, timing advance pids, etc.

Vehicle drives pretty decent otherwise.

[SiriusC1024]

How about you go ahead and post the tune anyway if you want help. I can't stand people who won't share knowledge. You got some secret magic in there that us regular people can't figure out? Tuning isn't hard. I do your job as a hobby. Let that sink in for a minute.

[edcmat-l1]

How about you go ahead and post the tune anyway if you want help. I can't stand people who won't share knowledge. You got some secret magic in there that us regular people can't figure out? Tuning isn't hard. I do your job as a hobby. Let that sink in for a minute.

This isn't a thread intended to teach you things I know and you don't. I get paid to tune, not to teach. Let that sink in a minute.

I can't stand hobbyist who think people should give away hard earned knowledge for free.

If you don't have any input on the strange timing dip in gear, kindly refrain from posting in my thread.

[SiriusC1024]

So, basically you'll learn something for free, charge people for it, then not give anything back.

It never crossed my mind that I would have access to your secret recipe. First of all my intention was to help if possible. Then I saw the part about your anal-retentiveness.

Now, if you post the tune maybe I can help. Very likely other people can help. It's hard to do without the tune file. You aren't logging enough PID's for anyone to infer the causes.

I'd still like to see if I can help. I don't see value in your tune because I don't see value in a cammed pick-em-up truck. I spent about 15 minutes looking at your log trying to figure it out. All I noticed is when the throttle increases the spark advances then looks like overspeed over-corrects. Can't tell if you're touching the throttle or if it's being done automatically. Torque commands are all over the place. There are things other than over/underspeed that can affect the spark here. So if you'd please...

[dangrebel]

looks like virtual torque tables need less torque in the map and air mass tables where the dip occurs. torque request goes way up when shifting to gear and that's when the timing dips. .24 airmass and 64kpa

[edcmat-l1]

So, basically you'll learn something for free, charge people for it, then not give anything back.

It never crossed my mind that I would have access to your secret recipe. First of all my intention was to help if possible. Then I saw the part about your anal-retentiveness.

Now, if you post the tune maybe I can help. Very likely other people can help. It's hard to do without the tune file. You aren't logging enough PID's for anyone to infer the causes.

I'd still like to see if I can help. I don't see value in your tune because I don't see value in a cammed pick-em-up truck. I spent about 15 minutes looking at your log trying to figure it out. All I noticed is when the throttle increases the spark advances then looks like overspeed over-corrects. Can't tell if you're touching the throttle or if it's being done automatically. Torque commands are all over the place. There are things other than over/underspeed that can affect the spark here. So if you'd please...

I've been on this board for 16 years. You have no idea what I've "given back" to this community.

You can't help me Junior. You have no idea what you're talking about. Please go away.

[eXo3901]

In gear only it has an annoying timing dip. I can't seem to fix it or even data log exactly where it's coming from. In park it will idle all day long and never do it.

The log has torque management pulling timing almost the entire time in park and reverse? What "dip in gear" are we trying to isolate? Just the transition from park to reverse and back? I am guessing and it's a dumb uneducated response but the more I look at Gen5 issues it usually comes to an OS issue or something virtual/demanded/predicted being higher or lower than something virtual/demanded/predicted which is causing an undesired thing. In what scenarios would torque management be active on a Gen5 platform other than a "shift"?

Would you please post at least the OS used on this computer? You have a clipped log which stripped the log details and no tune. Someone might have an answer that is specific to the OS. Or it'll be crickets...

[TriPinTaZ]

How many Gen 5 cars have you tuned?

[SiriusC1024]

Alright bud. What I said was happening is what's happening. You want to be a professional then be a professional. You're the one with your business and reputation on the line. I'll let you sit and spin.

[DSP RACING]

Why such a dick reply? Did your boyfriend breakup with you?

[370Silverado]

This isn't a thread intended to teach you things I know and you don't. I get paid to tune, not to teach. Let that sink in a minute.

I can't stand hobbyist who think people should give away hard earned knowledge for free.

If you don't have any input on the strange timing dip in gear, kindly refrain from posting in my thread.

You cant come into a forum, regardless of how long you've been here and ask for free advice, then ridicule someone claiming that people are just here to take you're hard work. You're asking people to look at your logs and "work" to figure out what you can't, but you have he nerve to chastise someone for telling you that you might as well post the tune, because frankly, that's going to be the easiest way to find out where your issue is at. Let it sink in that you said "I get paid to tune" while coming to a forum asking for free advice.......... Maybe what you cant stand is the fact that you don't know what's wrong, you admitted that you copied over the file from a vehicle with a similar cam instead of tuning the vehicle based off what its giving you. No, I don't need your rebuttal, stop for a minute and think about what I typed, and good luck figuring out what your issue is. Hopefully it gets resolved.

[eficalibrator]

Wow, lots of different data points along the Dunning-Kruger curve in this thread.

If I may point a few things out, lots of very skilled pros donate time on this board to help people, getting nothing in return. This board is a GREAT resource when looking for input on specific failures/events that one could run into on all the various platforms and conditions. Even I have been known to search for answers on here or even ask a few "dumb questions" from time to time. I'll also wager that I have steered more people towards their answers than almost anyone else here.

Not only am I an experienced pro, who has done this as a living for a few decades, I'm also the teacher to a lot of people on here. I can 100% sympathize with the frustration that comes with people demanding your expertise that was hard earned and paid for over the years for free because "it's for the good of the community." Everyone loves it when pros give free, accurate advice but few like to actually pay for it. Sadly, as good as my training material is, this market doesn't pay me well enough for it to make it the only thing I do. All too often, I run into people who feel like my advice should be free and complete all the time. Try that with your doctor, lawyer, or accountant and see how far you get. Just because I build speakers as a hobby does not mean that a sound engineer owes me free consulting on setting my DSP, even though I know a LOT about it from engineering school and practice.

So, back to the point: @edcmat-l1 does not need to divulge anything here if he doesn't feel like it. He will also get limited help as a result from the mind hive here. He knows this, and was likely hoping someone saw something obvious that he was overlooking. He's a big boy, he'll deal with it. There are other educational/consulting resources out there that he can tap for help, of which I am only one of many. Solving this will likely have him going back and adding more data to the discussion one way or another. Torque based controls don't usually do things randomly, there are just lots of layers to the onion. It's a game of elimination sometimes to figure out which layer caused the event. Internet forums are not always the best place to do this.

[EliteTunedSchool]

Check your in box.

[Ghostnotes]

Wow, lots of different data points along the Dunning-Kruger curve in this thread.

If I may point a few things out, lots of very skilled pros donate time on this board to help people, getting nothing in return. This board is a GREAT resource when looking for input on specific failures/events that one could run into on all the various platforms and conditions. Even I have been known to search for answers on here or even ask a few "dumb questions" from time to time. I'll also wager that I have steered more people towards their answers than almost anyone else here.

Not only am I an experienced pro, who has done this as a living for a few decades, I'm also the teacher to a lot of people on here. I can 100% sympathize with the frustration that comes with people demanding your expertise that was hard earned and paid for over the years for free because "it's for the good of the community." Everyone loves it when pros give free, accurate advice but few like to actually pay for it. Sadly, as good as my training material is, this market doesn't pay me well enough for it to make it the only thing I do. All too often, I run into people who feel like my advice should be free and complete all the time. Try that with your doctor, lawyer, or accountant and see how far you get. Just because I build speakers as a hobby does not mean that a sound engineer owes me free consulting on setting my DSP, even though I know a LOT about it from engineering school and practice.

So, back to the point: @edcmat-l1 does not need to divulge anything here if he doesn't feel like it. He will also get limited help as a result from the mind hive here. He knows this, and was likely hoping someone saw something obvious that he was overlooking. He's a big boy, he'll deal with it. There are other educational/consulting resources out there that he can tap for help, of which I am only one of many. Solving this will likely have him going back and adding more data to the discussion one way or another. Torque based controls don't usually do things randomly, there are just lots of layers to the onion. It's a game of elimination sometimes to figure out which layer caused the event. Internet forums are not always the best place to do this.

As an expert in my chosen field of Engineering, I constantly give my knowledge and guidance for free. If I felt qualified to offer advice here, I would freely do it.....my choice. Of course this is not my profession and I do not rely on it, it's a hobby. Just like my other 2, drumming and astrophotography. Which is the case here with the majority I would bet. I would also guess that most here are more intent on their own individual project as opposed to trying to market themselves afterwards. What we see here is a large percentage of people constantly asking for help, but I would bet that it's a small percentage of the overall users, so it seems to be the majority. As I see it, most are not really asking for tune help, it's more of how to set things up for tuning and evaluation.As you said, TBT is a more convoluted system than GENIII/GENIV.

For me as an example. When I bought my G8GT, I had no idea how to tune it although I am an ASE master....from a long time ago mind you. Being an auto technician paid my way through college. That's diveability,failures, run and maintain, using SUN scopes and analyzers etc...which still can be useful. I knew how the system worked fundamentally. Fast forward, I knew the what, which is fundamentally the same, I did not know the how. I ended up here and it was a great help on my GEN/IV. Also, your video proved 10x more helpful. I purchased it and within 3 days I had a completely well behaved, large cam, ported head full bolt on engine.Never had to touch it again. That first video had the science behind it, but more importantly the details on how to set up and configure for open loop lambda calibration. You broke everything down step by step on how to learn how to tune. You provided a clear roadmap on what to disable, what to get out of the way etc. We still had to learn how to interpret it.

With the second video, which I also have, not so much..... and I'm not trying to negatively criticize here. With the GEN/V a lot of the terminology changed. My biggest stumbling block was and still is, and I would bet this is the case with most is the initial setup. In the 2nd video you make it clear verbally that a lot of the fundamentals still apply and you go into a lot of the science behind it, but it did not go into the setup details like you did with the GEN/III,GEN/IV. Some people were not tuning at the earlier stages and have really no reason to tune GEN/III/IV. It was a more high level overview. Do you still adjust your IVT gains for example? I went back and tried to apply some of the same settings that were adjusted on my G8 to find some were there and some were not, or named differently perhaps, it did not work. That's where I believe some of the disconnect lies on our end. Granted, you cant tailor for everything obviously. However the first video was much more informative on setup. Again, I'm not trying to be negative and it's up to us to dial it in.

Last,
This is a forum for learning and trading information and does a fairly good job at it, it's just all over the place.