Sure would like to see the NGK wideband show on the list for Pro logging setup!
Had to do some math and setup manually. Still have some work to do before I'm able to confirm that it's working OK.
Sure would like to see the NGK wideband show on the list for Pro logging setup!
Had to do some math and setup manually. Still have some work to do before I'm able to confirm that it's working OK.
we add them as we get the info...get us the right calculation & we'll be happy to add it
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
From the NGK manual:
Mathematically: AFR = (1.4 x Output Voltage) + 9
output is 0 - 5 V linear
0 V = 9.00 AFR
5 V = 16.00 AFR
For the HPT input I used:
Volts / 0.7143 + 9
Hope that helps.
BTW, still haven't got it confirmed yet. I did most of the wiring yesterday and just got the bung welded in today. I still need to do the free air calibration and replace the plug with the O2 sensor. Hopefully I'll get a chance tomorrow and confirm that all works and interfaces OK.
cool, yeah sounds good.
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
This will be native in 2.1.18.
We got this guy Not Sure, ...
Keith, even better would be to add it as a "lambda" display instead of a/f as well. This NTK/ECM unit uses a value of 14.56:1 as stoichiometric (lambda=1 for a fuel H:C ratio of 1.85) Given that:
0V = 9/14.56 = 0.618 lambda
5V = 16/14.56 = 1.098 lambda
Greg, I'll try to get that in there as well.
We got this guy Not Sure, ...
Hmm, time to invest in an NTK AFX wideband.
Greg.
Question about the NTK that you may be able to shed light on:
Why do they need to do free-air calibration with the NTK unit when the cal resistor is located on the o2 sensor?
Don't they use that for calibration of that specific sensor?
Always Support Our Troops!
Yes, there has to be some degree of correction to that specific sensor, hence the resistor on the harness. However, UEGOs can experience gain shift with age.
Fundamentally, the UEGO is really just an oxygen level sensor, so we reference various levels of oxygen concentration in the exhaust. Since we know that the air in our atmosphere is always 20.9% oxygen, it gives us a consistent reference for the top end of the scale. This makes it easier to recalibrate so the the gain of the ciruit is appropriate even at the extreme of 20.9% oxygen. Once this is done, detecting ~5% oxygen or less becomes much more accurate.
The NTK unit is actually manufactered by ECM, who makes arguably the best lab grade meters on the planet for production labs and dynos. We use ECM hardware at work all the time.
Originally Posted by eficalibrator
Is this why on my car at idle and light throttle cruise it seems to always be around 14.56:1? It says in HP Tuners it is set to 14.7 but my car NEVER gets up that high. Seems to hover around 14.59 and lower number wise on the NTK display. It's been like this since I bought it 8 months ago and 4 of these months it was not used. I've free air calibrated it 5 times and it didn't make a difference at all. If it does read off by .2-.4 is it still safe to tune WOT with it? Like if it was off by .2-.4 at 14.7 would it be off the same amount at 12.0:1 a/f ratio?
Yes, that's why. Like I said, stoichiometric a/f will show as 14.56:1 on the NTK display. A/F gas is really a converted reading since it's really measuring lambda. In this case, you're probably actually operating at lambda=1 since your display is toggling in the 14.59-14.44 range. This is good and means everything is working. GM just happens to call stoichiometry 14.68:1 in their calibrations because they may be using a slightly different fuel spec in development. Either way, it's close enough that the closed loop operation from the stock narrowband sensors can pull it in to lambda=1 for whatever fuel you're running. (Within reason)
In the OEM engineering world, we usually speak in terms of lambda to avoid this confusion. Lambda is a number that just references how far rich or lean you are from stoichiometry, regardless of fuel spec. It even works on methanol, ethanol, propane, butane, CNG, and e85. The offset is a ratio, not an adder of a fixed amount.
The NTK unit uses a display ratio of 14.56:1 for a/f gasoline display. If you want to know how your NTK numbers compare to you desired A/F shown in HPT (provided your stoichiometric fuel ratio is still set to the stock value of 14.68) you would just multiply by the ratio:
12.0 on the NTK = 12.0/14.56 = lambda 0.824
0.824 lambda = (0.824)*(14.68) = 12.099 a/f on the HPT display
So your conversion factor to go from the NTK to HPT is (14.68/14.56) = 1.008 essentially a 0.8% difference.
If my guages will read lambda should I switch the face plates and run that or should it be kept as an A/F reading to make it easier to work with. Does HP tuners have the ability to read lambda and display it? Seeing if these equations can be simplified by having them on the same scale??
lambda should just be a custom PID away if im not mistaken. Its just a matter of seeing what the output voltage would be at 1.0 rather then 14.7
It doesn't have to be perfect, it just needs to be done in two weeks...
A wise man once said "google it"
Fixed that for ya...lambda should just be a custom PID away if im not mistaken. Its just a matter of seeing what the output voltage would be at 1.0 rather then 14.56
It's personal preference whether you choose to work in lambda or A/f. I prefer lambda because it makes the math easier when your target is stoichiometry, which is 90% of the time.
Exactly, was thinking that working in lambda would make it easier for me...(the math) I know that working with the MAF error is the way to go, just the lambda scale leaves little room for error in my eyes? I'm sure you guys will correct me on this if need be?
OK, so in other words, when I'm at WOT and the a/f ratio on the NTK diplay says 12.0 the that is actually correct?
So to get the correct numbers showing up in HP Tuners I need to change my custom aux input config right? I want to tune the cars MAF error % with the wideband and I'm not totally sure what to input into HP tuners for that.
Bump
The sensor aging process makes sense. I knew there would be a good reason for free air calibration. From PLX's site they argue that free air calibration is not necessary. Guess they figure you will replace the sensor before you need free-air calibration.
Any insight into the NGK UEGO vs Bosch 4.2 sensors?
Any one better than another?
Always Support Our Troops!
Yes, within about 1%, depending on your conversion factor.
Both are excellent sensors when paired with the appropriate control box. In my experience, the NTK is more resistant to lead poisoning. Where lead will shift the Bosch sensors output gradually toward failure, the NTK keeps working until it's plugged and will output the same until it just dies almost instantly. The Bosch unit is usually a little less expensive though.
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