OSS tables description

[Joe Tcat]

If I increase the shift schedule in my 1320 tune to 6450 or 6500, will the OSS table clip it, or is it a non issue in auto mode ? I am not clear on the output shaft speed limits and when they are applied. And what happens when they are applied ? I have read other descriptions but it is not clear... yet.

I notice the OSS upshift rpm per shift is set accordingly vs the gray table on the left in the stock 1320 table. I understand how to calculate it vs gear ratio.

Some of the left hand gray'd out tables in other tunes (OSS tune 1 for example) have different values I notice, up to 7000 rpm, plus in some other tunes (besides these) the OSS speed vs upshift values are whacked out or mismatched, not set accordingly vs the gray's out values on the left....is the best way I can describe it.. .. That is highly confusing.

Are the gray'd values on the left adjustable with diablo CMR software rather that HPT ?

Sorry for the rookie questions

Thanks

[LilSick]

i raised those in mine in addition to the limits under: engine > fuel > cutout > rpm limits

i do not understand what grey areas you are talking about unless you mean ECO 42 43 etc? Its just telling you which patterns eco uses. It looks like you are comparing a file and some of the buttons are pale looking? The beta does that to me sometimes but they still open. Can ya circle what you are referring to? Or name it? And being that hpt has every dodge automatic transmission under the heading trans here in the forum wouldnt it be nice if everyone started the title of their post with ZF70 or 47RE or whatever their trans is

[MakurFab]

Joe,

Those tables are the max rpm limits per gear. (example: your at 6000 rpm shift 6-7 no matter what your other tables are set at). There is more to it than that but you will start to understand it if stare at it long enough. I could be wrong but how it works on my car. I have all the upshift gears 1-8 set to my max rpm 5675 OSS rpm. Those "gray'd" out values are adjustable in HPT. Just click the table headers and it will pop up another table that allows you to changes those values. All data tables work this way in HPT but some are read only. Mainly the tables that contain maps. example: shift maps reference the corresponding shift tables. It didn't use to be like that. all tables could be changes until the roll out of the emissions requirement update. I found a work around that allows me to still modify the read only data tables but its a pain in the dick.

[Joe Tcat]

Good advice lilsick I added HP70 to the title...I meant these rpm thresholds on the left side are different from one HP70 tune to the next tune for some reason and it threw me off. The way the tables show it makes me initially think the adjustable table values have to equal what the threshold is on the left side vs gear ratio..I will study on your reply's for a while.... Thank you guys.

[DodgeBoy_8HP]

Actually that is not a complete true statement saying transmission will use these tables. These table are linked to a feature called "UKZW".
Depending on the vehicle, this table is not used at all!
So, without having a deeper look in the overall vehicle, it is impossible to affirm they are being used.

Dodge Boy
https://www.youtube.com/@dodgeboy2785

[LilSick]

I figured they were linked to something as cell changes do not effect shift points in a linear fashion. What about the 100 different tables that are supposedly for the converter? What have you figured out there?

[Joe Tcat]

DodgeBoy 8HP I am not sure what information you would need from the vehicle to determine if the table is used, but it is a 2009 srt challenger formally with a 6.1 and Nag 1 when stock, and upgraded to a 7.0L with a 8 speed that has a 1320 tune is the best i can tell you on that at the moment. My objective is simply to shift at 6500 in auto mode and not be screwed up by the OSS table.
Thanks.

[DodgeBoy_8HP]

Joe,
If you want to do the "half a**" way, just set the table to 6500 rpms engine to all gear (do the math to enter OSS)
Keep in mind:
- if there is any other "UKxx" set to a value below 6500 rpms, trans might default to limp home or set a code
- If engine was upgraded to 7.0, trans tune might get lost in some specific point
- Be careful with flare -> this could decrease drastically trans lifetime
- Play around with torque management (I strongly believe engine response will be different now)

Dodge Boy

[LilSick]

DodgeBoy 8HP I am not sure what information you would need from the vehicle to determine if the table is used, but it is a 2009 srt challenger formally with a 6.1 and Nag 1 when stock, and upgraded to a 7.0L with a 8 speed that has a 1320 tune is the best i can tell you on that at the moment. My objective is simply to shift at 6500 in auto mode and not be screwed up by the OSS table.
Thanks.

oem 1320 trans tune has glitch. Can anyone share a stock scat trans tune for joe so he can compare?

[Joe Tcat]

I am curios on the glitch lilsick. I know the sport tables have the torque reduction removed in the high load area of the 1320 tune and that alarmed me. I compared it against a 2018 392 scat tune that I have so I put the torque reduction back in from the scat tune the best I could for the lack of a better plan at the time. My engine sends a 630-635 ft/lb reading to the trans at WOT

I expect the 7.0L N/A makes about 20% more torque as a guess so I increased the sport torque reduction values 20% in the last 516 ft/lb line which is on the bottom of the table for each gear. Stock 1320 sport tables attached.

I did make 1 WOT pull Dodge Boy 8HP without torque reduction enabled and didn't realize it, so I won't do that again until it is functioning. The 2-3 shifted at near 6400 @ 500ms and the 3-4 was around 250ms then I got out of it. I expect the 2-3 to get quicker if it adapts plus when i get the torque reduction going next time. No flair. No tie up near as I could tell, felt good.

[Joe Tcat]

Thanks you guys I appreciate all the input. I loaded the (right hand) 2018 scat 392 sport torque reduction tables to replace the stock 1320 tables and increased the last line, 518 ft/lb by 20% (left hand) for the larger engine. 3-4 is shown but i did them up to 5-6, i won't go past 6th at WOT. In the PCM I will lower the minimum spark torque reduction values at WOT to around minus 10 degrees and go more negative from there if need be. I am open to any suggestions on anything..Rev limits are raised in PCM and TCM.

The only thing i have left to foul up today is the OSS tables and I don't want to do anything yet

Thanks !

[LilSick]

can you attach the log? i pm you. here are the stock numbers for 707hp 3>4

[Joe Tcat]

Not sure where i saved that one wot log i had. I will have one in the spring, what trans channels do you recommend i monitor ?
Thanks

[LilSick]

Not sure where i saved that one wot log i had. I will have one in the spring, what trans channels do you recommend i monitor ?
Thanks

its taking half a second to shift on a fresh stroker build. were you using a different version of vcm suite maybe? the log has to be somewhere. i would want to be figuring it out quick style. fresh zf70 full of fluid with red clutches and billet drums is around $7500 after shipping both directions. if it were me every wot shift whould be logged and they would all be slicked down at the track so it might not spin so much. I'll put together a channel config that i would want but what do i know, am brand new at this. i woulda prolly got on Z's long ass waiting list if i were gonna build a stroker. clutch fill time, clutch fill pressure, fill counter and fast fill counter - i dont even know if you can log all of those (with a quick polling interval like 10 or 20 ms) for both drums can you? i am referring to one shift. 2 > 3.

does it have a loose converter? did you use a tazer to add track mode? i used one to add some stuff but its never going in my car again. track mode mine only uses one of 2 different shift schedules. you could download alpha obd2 and get a elm 327 and add track mode that way. whatever, i would work on one shift at a time cuz im new (and a trans is expensive) and i would start with that 2 > 3. will it hook on the street there or no way? you will have to figure out the polling intervals and what needs to be closest to the top for it to work right but i think something like this would be a good place to start:

[Joe Tcat]

I will try to explain about the translator and all that I have going here, so for those who are interested I hope that I cover it well enough to give you a better idea. Sorry for the length of this....

The engine build is 11 years old and 10k miles now...just broke in :-) It is the latest version of the VCM suite or close, and probably not sampling very quick, no idea yet., Hopefully I will be schooled up on that this spring when I get ready to try it with the HP70 at WOT....I should not have done that wot 2-3 and 3-4 until I had all the driveability dialed in and rechecked the fluid and had the torque reduction going which I didn't realize was disabled in the PCM for the Nag1.....but the little kid in me kicked in and I just had to do it once. The minimum spark torque reduction in the PCM was set higher than my wot timing curve so it wouldn't allow any torque reduction. That table clips any reduction called for by the trans if the trans wants to pull more timing than the minimum values in the table.... I am just repeating here what was taught to me on this and am no expert....

The 2-3 didn't have a chance to adapt after just 1 pull and the target is 400ms I believe. And by adding torque reduction back into the equation it will be easier to engage the clutches without having the fight against near as much engine torque in order to pull the rpms down thus quicken the shift, if that makes any sense. If you note the ratio spread on the 2-3 is wider and maybe be more of a struggle than the later gear changes. Again, I didn't come up any of this like I am some kind of an expert, it is what was explained to me.

The converter is either a stock 1320 or a stock 392, we forgot to grab the number off it when installing. I did order the trans off a 1320 VIN but checked the trans part number (which comes with a converter) and all the 392s use that same number so I don't know what I have for a converter.. I do however like a tighter converter and this mother hubbard has low end torque so I am not concerned about my 60 ft. I can change the converter out later if need be. The Nag converter was much larger and felt stock around town but flashed at 3500. No idea what this stock converter flashes at, yet. It looks to be about a 9" tho...

On the modes, I don't need a tazer or unlock anything, my trans does not communicate with the BCM for changing modes. I have lonely communication U codes that nobody cares about anymore. There is a toggle switch to change modes now and i have all 3 modes. Shown in the bottom of the attached photo. Rocker switch is for cutouts. The toggle switch feeds 2 inputs in the PCS controller which is the liaison between the HP70 and the car PCM. It is like an interpreter in an office that translates between 2 diplomats that speak 2 different languages. That is why for years they claimed the ZF's were incompatible with some pre-2015 vehicles...until this came along. I basically pick up the necessary inputs from the car CAN such as tps and rpm, etc etc and feed back gear position and torque reduction requests etc etc. The ZF can be a stand alone in some applications but that may cancel out the ability to utilize torque reduction if it doesn't have anybody to talk to.

I have been told firmly a few times that in MY particular application even with more power do NOT screw around with the pressures or shift timing or any of that so as not to create any problems, just keep adding torque reduction to get my shift times down and it will be fine. I don't have this trans in a hellcat and the guy that coaches me claims to have some wicked powerful and fast cars going with this trans. Because i am used to old school transmissions where more pressure is always better to go fast, or at least bark the tires, I have been taken to the woodshed over the suggestion of adding pressure etc a few times now and am about ready to complain to the blow-noses in one faction of society. ..(too funny)

I know that I use ID 5 in street mode and 9 in track mode when I have it to the wood because it shifted at near 6400 where I set it and that is what started me wondering about the OSS business.. If I flip the mode switch to track on the highway it backshifts 1 gear like a hellcat ready to pounce. Around town it shifts higher and firmer in track, it is a blast to drive and the mileage astounds me compared to the Nag.

I sure do appreciate you getting me squared away on the logging and the channels lilsick, thanks for that. It is like this, I have 2 OBD ports. 1 for the transmission and 1 for the engine. So i can log 1 or the other with HPT. However, if i am logging the PCM with HPT, I can still log the trans via a USB cable using the PCS controller software which is handy, but does not show all the same parameters as HPT.

As far as traction, there is no way this will hook up even in 2nd gear with the 305 x 18 Neat-O 555R2's. They are pretty much useless for a drag tire on this car but are taller like they need to be to look right and are wide, and do hook up better than most street type tires. For the track I have MT 305 x 18 street R's but they most likely won't go from the dig on the street with the N/A car. The problem with using those on the street is they flat-spot if they sit in the garage with weight on them, so i don't like to put them on.

Thanks guys all input is much appreciated....

https://www.soundgermanautomotive.com/pcs/

[DodgeBoy_8HP]

Definitely adding more pressure on clutches does not solve the problem for faster shifts. It has to be with combination of other factors.
Just be careful to not overdue with pressure or torque management cut. Both could be harmful to your trans.

[Joe Tcat]

Thanks for the advice. I will be wary of doing too much to start with and will watch the shift times..and see what happens.

[LilSick]

cool. do you have a stock scat read with both the pcm and tcm? i am looking for one.

mine doesnt hook on the street either.

https://youtube.com/shorts/NtGmb6UG25g?feature=share

[Joe Tcat]

mine doesnt hook on the street either.

Ha I guess not !

[LilSick]

Stone cold 305/45/18 et street R same 3580 tire you have in the garage : )

Do you have a stock scat tcm file?

And where is the tune depo??