Real fat fueling on start up

[StupidJeep]

As the thread would indicate I have a very rich cold start, in the 10 to 11 afr range. It will slowly lean out as it warms but only to 12.5 -13 range. Will stay rich for a very long time ( 15-20 min maybe more ) unless I shut it off and and restart then it will settle down to 14.5ish. Very noticeable when I force open loop. Noticeable on fuel trims in closed loop.
I have IAT and ECT temp factor tables zeroed and the FA cold table knocked way down. Also baro learn is disabled
Is there anything else that would be adding fuel?
07 GC 5.7 comp HRT stage 2

Thanks

[rockystock]

Post log and tune

[StupidJeep]

Tune plus two logs. Cold start and warm start with drive.

[rockystock]

Are you running a wide band?

Got a pretty good idle chop...

You need to request some additional parameters from HPT:

[ECM] 35574 - Burn Fraction Inverse: This value is the inverse of the fraction of fuel burned per cylinder event.
[ECM] 4367 - Fuel Based Acceleration Enrichment Gain: The base gain for acceleration enrichment based on fuel transients.
[ECM] 4368 - Throttle Based Acceleration Enrichment Gain: The base gain for acceleration enrichment based on throttle transients.
[ECM] 18961 - Throttle Based Acceleration Enrichment Max MAP Delta: The maximum change in throttle based MAP (TMAP) that throttle based acceleration enrichment is allowed to use.
[ECM] 18959 - Fuel Based Deceleration Enleanment Gain: The base gain for deceleration enleanment based on fuel transients.
[ECM] 18960 - Throttle Based Deceleration Enleanment Gain: The base gain for deceleration enleanment based on throttle transients.
[ECM] 18962 - Throttle Based Deceleration Enleanment Minimum TMAP Delta: The minimum change in throttle based MAP (TMAP) before throttle based deceleration enleanment is actived.

The Burn Fraction Inverse is the most important for you. It is the one that's adding too much fuel while warming up to normal temp.

Are you able to add a Pressure Ratio channel in your scanner? If you're tuning your VE tables using MAP/Baro, that will probably work, but you may have better results by logging PRratio.

Recommend also logging Engine Run Time - you need it to tune your FA Cold Enrich and Burn Fraction Inverse tables.

I'm currently logging Fuel Flow to help optimize the idle (try to minimize fuel flow).

[rays04gtx]

looks like it doesn't hang on to that High starting RPM that it use to have


this one should work for


How do you like it with Baro learn disabled ?

Also keep in mind that your ambient never gets above 28*F and IAT doesn't get above 41*F till it gets about 13min in.

The changes I made are listed in the Tune Details, Fuel>open loop>Cold/warm up , the Colum value is listed as aircharge, it's not, it's actually seconds, I re-scaled your to go out to 420sec (7mins) that should kept it in control till the ECU decides to let it settle down to .0696FA ........basicly the ECU "feels it's too cold out side and the Chop, Choppy idle is telling the ECU that it's not going to stay running unless we stay fat......once the weather gets above 50/60f it should run fine on the tune un-modded version of this tune I posted.

Tables 44279-44282 in airflow>speed density, 44280 will help you target that air Intake temp that's messing with you....but remember the lower you set those "factors" the hard it might be to start , might crank a few seconds more then you like.

[rays04gtx]

looks like it doesn't hang on to that High starting RPM that it use to have


this one should work for


How do you like it with Baro learn disabled ?

Also keep in mind that your ambient never gets above 28*F and IAT doesn't get above 41*F till it gets about 13min in.

The changes I made are listed in the Tune Details, Fuel>open loop>Cold/warm up , the Colum value is listed as aircharge, it's not, it's actually seconds, I re-scaled your to go out to 420sec (7mins) that should kept it in control till the ECU decides to let it settle down to .0696FA ........basicly the ECU "feels it's too cold out side and the Chop, Choppy idle is telling the ECU that it's not going to stay running unless we stay fat......once the weather gets above 50/60f it should run fine on the tune un-modded version of this tune I posted.

Tables 44279-44282 in airflow>speed density, 44280 will help you target that air Intake temp that's messing with you....but remember the lower you set those "factors" the hard it might be to start , might crank a few seconds more then you like.

a better way of looking at it,

your old cold enrich table had a max time length of 25sec, so at 26sec the idle is still erratic( in the eyes of the ECU) it looks at Table 34210 for input... but that table ended at 25sec so the ECU goes back to it's last known parameters for guidance, so now the ECU has "guidance" out to 7 mins, with this tune at 61sec the table is asking for no more extra fuel.

[StupidJeep]

Thanks! Ill check it out in the next few days. Its way too old here this week to play around too much. -20 celcius tonight!

[StupidJeep]

FA Cold table fix seems to have helped the fueling on the cold start. The minor issue I have now is a big swing in RPM on first start ( 1400rpm to 1000rpm for a few seconds then 14/1500 briefly then back to 1000rpm then goes away. Also then a very slight surge/swing in RPM in drive only when stopped. Not sure what the start up swing is but I am assuming my surge in drive is either in the idle control somewhere or possibly the spark tables not matching up....

drive home feb8.hpl
cold start feb8.hpt

[rockystock]

The big RPM swings just after startup are probably caused by your FA cold enrich or BFI (or both) not giving enough extra fuel before going into closed loop. It looks like you have too much fuel in the first seconds after closed loop is enabled, but there are several cells the PCM moves through in both the FA cold enrich table and especially the BFI table before getting to that point. In open loop, you're blind right now; need a wide band to really tell what's going on.

[StupidJeep]

I have a wideband but it doesnt go through the preheat fast enough to be active for the first few seconds of start up. Short of giving it a different power source for the time being.
Otherwise the wideband is 14.5 once active.

[rockystock]

I use a cigarette lighter outlet - hot at all times - I plug the sensor in and wait until it's active, then start up.

[rockystock]

Are you able to connect the wideband to your VCM scanner?

[StupidJeep]

Not easily, its a pretty basic AEM. I would need wire in the serial plug then find my adaptor to usb to the laptop.

[[email protected]]

lean on cold start 08 ram 5.7 stock other then thumper cam

[StupidJeep]

lean on cold start 08 ram 5.7 stock other then thumper cam

I think i go mine sorted by playing with FA Cold table and Start Up Air flow tables mostly.

[[email protected]]

ok thank u

[PurpleRam]

lean on cold start 08 ram 5.7 stock other than thumper cam

Looking at the tune someone watched a lot of recklessMotrorsports Videos, not a bad thing but he's more of a one tune fits all guy, and he should keep his focus on the GPEC OS.

Attached is your Cold Table (6136) and an actual stock 08 Ram's Cold table (5890)

1st thing , this table 34210 has the WRONG definition for Colum Axis the "airflow Values is actually Engine Run time. (0,3.125= 3.125 Seconds, 6.25 Sec, 12.5 Sec, 25 SEC, 50 SEC,100 1 min & 40 Seconds, 200 3Min& 20secs, 400 6mins & 40 seconds)

2nd thing, I would return your 34210 table back to stock to start (EDIT: Leave the -40F through -4F alone) attached tune 6136 As.1(1), use as a compare, or load the tune.
if it's still lean, Look at 6136 Aa.1(2)

3rd thing, attached is your 02's tables as found, again NOT stock, and for some reason someone changed Pratio boundaries (Table 34470), No need to change them unless you plan on spending a Phuck ton of time above 4500 RPMS.

Do you live in a Colder area of the country?

The Changes I made are listed in the Calibration Notes. again, load the tune, or compare and change yours.

Last thing, I also attached a stock 08 1500 Stock 5.7 Auto tune so you can compare......In case you don't have the original tune for your truck.

EDIT: there's more timing in your PT table and WOT tables then there should be, and Knock sensors are oversensitive.