Catalyst Warmup Tables

[ZPM]

This is a topic I'm seeing in a lot of tuning communities with no real public solution. HPtuners removed ECM 2026 and ECM 2027 a while back which was the catalyst warmup tables. Now with a big build LTX and obviously catless setups running -15 degrees on the startup is just making noise for no reason. Many many many tickets have been submitted asking for these tables back from many tuners but no one is ever given a solution. Now obviously User Defined Parameters could be a solution to this however no one is ever willing to share the addresses or A2L files. Like this information is government missile launch codes or something I don't get it.
So I have been using an older version of vcm editor just for being able to fix the nasty cold starts on my customers builds without hacking minimum timing tables and crap and I know a lot of other tuners doing this method as well, however it's now a problem for the 2022+ ZL1. My old version doesn't even recognize the new Z's. So I downloaded the latest beta and was able to make all my changes ---Except! Cat Warmup..

All that said to ask these questions... Does anyone have the addresses to cat warm up from an a2l file or would anyone be willing to sell me an a2l file? I own a shop and I'd gladly pay for it. If not, is there another way to take care of this? Also templet applicator doesn't work --Tried it

[GHuggins]

This is a 22 I've just started on. Currently just started on dialing in the Fuel Density table after getting the other aspects close enough so it can be driven for the moment.

It's a cammed, pullied, tb, headers, no cats, E, heads, ported blower and so on car. Most of the issues you're referring to can be corrected in the idle and torque model tables. The torque model can really be twisted and still work right. This one still has stock idle adaptive timing/trim tables if that's what you want to call them. I still need to get timing up just a little at idle, but otherwise it's close at idle even as it is. I do final idle torque modeling after dialing in the density table...

These are just partial files - wouldn't let me load the whole things, but you get the gist...

[TriPinTaZ]

Pretty sure the EPA put the pressure on HPTuners to remove this ability. Even after the emissions training we had to do they didn't put this feature back in. I typically leave this option enabled anyhow and use Virtual Torque to make it behave, as suggested above. Right now there is no other solution for the 22+ cars.

[verlon]

Can you post stock file?

[will_974]

PM Sent.

I may be able to assist.

[eficalibrator]

Hrmm... One might even argue that in order to create a CARB legal calibration for some aftermarket combinations, we would need to adjust/increase this exact table. I don't get involved in turning things like this off for street vehicles, but there is certainly a case for reasonable access.

@support shouldn't we have access to this if we have taken the approved training to enable access to other emissions related parameter?

[tunerpro]

Hrmm... One might even argue that in order to create a CARB legal calibration for some aftermarket combinations, we would need to adjust/increase this exact table. I don't get involved in turning things like this off for street vehicles, but there is certainly a case for reasonable access.

@support shouldn't we have access to this if we have taken the approved training to enable access to other emissions related parameter?

Out of curiosity, under which circumstances do you think these parameters would need to be changed in order to pass CARB's emission tests where the vehicle was otherwise failing?

[eficalibrator]

Out of curiosity, under which circumstances do you think these parameters would need to be changed in order to pass CARB's emission tests where the vehicle was otherwise failing?

Anything that increases the base airflow during cold start. That could be a stroker kit, bigger cam, larger volume intake ports/intake, supercharger, etc. Changes to the exhaust that suck more heat out of the gases before they can heat the cat brick would also qualify like some header designs or moving the OEM catalyst slightly from its original location. We instrument lots of stuff on emissions programs, and I like to look specifically at cat lightoff times before I head into any emissions certification work. Being able to control the tradeoff between cold start stability/NVH/cat temp is key if you're trying to pass the current LEVIII standards.

[tunerpro]

That could be a stroker kit, bigger cam, larger volume intake ports/intake, supercharger, etc.

Which stroker kit, bigger cam, or modified cylinder heads in the GM world has ever received a CARB EO? I know some of the superchargers have but none of those touch catalyst warm up tables.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm truly curious about this...

[kevin87turbot]

Which stroker kit, bigger cam, or modified cylinder heads in the GM world has ever received a CARB EO? I know some of the superchargers have but none of those touch catalyst warm up tables.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm truly curious about this...

I'm not aware of any stroker kits that have received a CARB EO, but heads, cams and supercharger kits have certainly received CARB EO. Most of the companies that go through that process will have a page on their website that shows the applications.

Here's Edelbrock's EO page. https://www.edelbrock.com/emissions-guide

[tunerpro]

Thanks for the reference! I just a picked a cylinder head randomly.

https://ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default.../d-215-119.pdf

These are HEMI heads, but all it says is they are OE replacement and do not require tuning. Relevant passage:

"This Executive Order is valid provided the installation instructions for the GEN 3 HEMI Cylinder Heads will not recommend tuning the vehicle to specifications different from those of the vehicle manufacturer."

There are exactly two camshafts with an EO number listed on this page, one for a 1993 and older Ford V8 (excluding modular motor), and one for 1994 and older GM V8s with TBI or Carburetor (both of which have the same statement about no tuning changes).

In each of these three examples, the EO specifically says you may NOT change the tuning (calibration).

So my question stands, I suppose - it was proposed that the catalyst warmup tables be re-added to the editor because its necessary for CARB EO calibration development, but I can't find an example of a CARB EO being issued to a part that either required changes to those settings (EO'd supercharger calibrations), or part that even allows for aftermarket tuning.

[eficalibrator]

Which stroker kit, bigger cam, or modified cylinder heads in the GM world has ever received a CARB EO? I know some of the superchargers have but none of those touch catalyst warm up tables.

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm truly curious about this...

There are actually a bunch of cylinder heads with EOs (Edelbrock, Trick Flow, AFR...) but all of them were tested without ECU programming and their impact on a stock vehicle was small enough to not mess up emissions. At Calibrated Success, I work with clients looking to go a step further by including programming with multiple hardware changes and then passing emissions. It's absolutely doable as long as we pick reasonable hardware combinations and do the ECU calibration properly. I come from the OEM engineering background of working with many of these emissions functions from the start, so I understand how to use them to make new hardware combinations cleaner.

[LSxpwrdZ]

The solution is to use an older version of software that still had the tables enabled... or go dumpster diving in binary to find the parameters yourself to add via user defined parameters. I would aid in addressing information if I knew it wouldn't get deleted.

[TriPinTaZ]

The solution is to use an older version of software that still had the tables enabled... or go dumpster diving in binary to find the parameters yourself to add via user defined parameters. I would aid in addressing information if I knew it wouldn't get deleted.

You can't use an older version of HPTuners on the 2023 models and even some 2022 models. I think most 2021 and below are defined and editable in version 4.10.x.

[GHuggins]

All I have is 4.8.7. It won't even open a 22 Didn't know 4.10.x still had access to a lot of this stuff. Thought they had already started removing it by then.

[TriPinTaZ]

4.10.6 I believe is the last version that has cat warmup available.