Request: log files from stock LSA

[Alvin]

I asked my sales person to check the price.. They said that things have changed a lot over the last couple years. We used to custom order kits for odd setups and that went away or at least is a lot harder to do.

[blindsquirrel]

My ZR1 HX will work fine. Looking at it closer it does function as a dual pass, just the dividers in the tanks are only welded/brazed in one little spot and don't seal completely. There's some bypass around them.

Pump outlet into the bottom left HX fitting, across, loop the two RH fittings, across again, out the top left HX fitting to the brick, out from the brick into the tank, out from the tank into the pump inlet. Yes, it will purge better with the full flow going into and then out of whatever tank I decide to use.

Assuming my MSPaint guess is correct as to how the stock ZR1 is plumbed, I cannot think of a worse way to plumb it. It's constantly feeding air to the pump inlet! How would you ever get all the air out of that damn catch tank thing - it has no fill point, only an in, an out, and a drain fitting in the bottom? The flow goes IN the top fitting in the HX, and OUT the bottom one?! Where's the air gonna go?!! What??

[blindsquirrel]

...if I cut the RH tank open and remove the divider on that end I could then also weld up the two fittings and not need to loop a hose...

[blindsquirrel]

Last dumb n00b question (yeah, right...), probably specifically for Alvin...

Will the stock tank unit/regulator work OK with a 340lph pump? Stock regulator flow enough to keep pressure in check? It looks way tiny to me but if it works it works.

[GHuggins]

My ZR1 HX will work fine. Looking at it closer it does function as a dual pass, just the dividers in the tanks are only welded/brazed in one little spot and don't seal completely. There's some bypass around them.

Pump outlet into the bottom left HX fitting, across, loop the two RH fittings, across again, out the top left HX fitting to the brick, out from the brick into the tank, out from the tank into the pump inlet. Yes, it will purge better with the full flow going into and then out of whatever tank I decide to use.

Assuming my MSPaint guess is correct as to how the stock ZR1 is plumbed, I cannot think of a worse way to plumb it. It's constantly feeding air to the pump inlet! How would you ever get all the air out of that damn catch tank thing - it has no fill point, only an in, an out, and a drain fitting in the bottom? The flow goes IN the top fitting in the HX, and OUT the bottom one?! Where's the air gonna go?!! What??

All radiators/heat exchangers are plumbed this way for heat dissipation even heater cores flow in the top and out the bottom. That's why they do it that way is to make it better for getting rid of heat - not air - also why most require vacuum bleeding now. Once the air is bleed out it shouldn't get any more in it unless it gets low and they do require a special procedure to get the air out with running the pump with the top bleeder open and filling it and the reservoir with coolant, but even then the reservoir size and setup will make up for a lot of that. If it back fills the pump and cooler due to it's location for example it will bleed out pretty easily... With yours being mounted up high like it will be, you honestly shouldn't have a problem with either way you plumb it.

[Alvin]

Last dumb n00b question (yeah, right...), probably specifically for Alvin...

Will the stock tank unit/regulator work OK with a 340lph pump? Stock regulator flow enough to keep pressure in check? It looks way tiny to me but if it works it works.

We use/sell a 450 walbro that has been great.. No issues.

[Alvin]

My ZR1 HX will work fine. Looking at it closer it does function as a dual pass, just the dividers in the tanks are only welded/brazed in one little spot and don't seal completely. There's some bypass around them.

Pump outlet into the bottom left HX fitting, across, loop the two RH fittings, across again, out the top left HX fitting to the brick, out from the brick into the tank, out from the tank into the pump inlet. Yes, it will purge better with the full flow going into and then out of whatever tank I decide to use.

Assuming my MSPaint guess is correct as to how the stock ZR1 is plumbed, I cannot think of a worse way to plumb it. It's constantly feeding air to the pump inlet! How would you ever get all the air out of that damn catch tank thing - it has no fill point, only an in, an out, and a drain fitting in the bottom? The flow goes IN the top fitting in the HX, and OUT the bottom one?! Where's the air gonna go?!! What??

I think I wrote this out already but hardly anyone.. aftermarket or OEM plumb these things I think correctly. reservoir feed the pump.. Pump into the lowest things to the highest. Make it self bleeding.

[blindsquirrel]

We use/sell a 450 walbro that has been great.. No issues.

I think I measured the orifice in the little pod regulator at like 0.073". Crazy that little hole can bypass enough, but if you say it works then it works.

[blindsquirrel]

This is from the Magnuson instructions...
screenshot.08-03-2023 09.24.41.png

[GHuggins]

Pretty much everything there. Reservoir depends on what the person is after and what they'll use it for. If it's going to be tracked for instance a lot of people will fill the reservoirs with ice water and feed that straight to the brick, so they'll plumb the reservoir into the opposite line. I've even seen setups with two reservoirs basically on both sides and both filled with ice water. Personally I do it like the magnuson diagram with the hot side going in the top - if setup that way - and come out the bottom. They aren't that hard to bleed either way as long as the reservoir or general fill point is kept high.

You'll also want to keep in mind that if you're going to use the reservoir as just a reservoir then it's going to be a lot harder to bleed the air out. It really needs to be a flow through, which honestly wouldn't be that hard to add a nipple in the top to attach a hose to.

[Alvin]

This is from the Magnuson instructions...
screenshot.08-03-2023 09.24.41.png

That looks great to me.

If you happen to use ice..put a screen in the reservoir.. It will kill the pump. Also wouldn't be a good idea to send ice to the heat exchanger up front.

[blindsquirrel]

LOL, NO! No ice! No 2.25" blower pulleys! Stock transmission! Stop that!

[Alvin]

oh yeah.. forgot this was a "just the tip" build lol

[blindsquirrel]

It turns out that it is much more frustrating to put a pump in the stock basket assembly contraption if you wait a year between complete disassembly and reassembly. That thing has about 35 different parts and they only go together one way. Except for some parts, which can be assembled any of several different ways, only one of which is correct.

[TheMechanic]

In that case try lowering your force motor current a touch in the lower torque settings. That'll pretty much do the same thing as increasing line and hold pressure.

Yes 6speeds can shift super fast even without decreasing shift time settings or increasing pressures. Requires a lot of tuning though.

So what is up with the positive AND negative FMC? Which one do you modify? Both look the same so do both?

[GHuggins]

Personally haven't had the luxury of tuning one of these standalone OS's, but looking through the calibration there are actually a few duplicate tables with identical settings. I would modify them and keep them the same - kind of like having to make the VE 1 and 2 tables the same every time you changed one. So modify one then copy and paste into the other differently named table.

[blindsquirrel]

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...rrent-Negative

[TheMechanic]

Personally haven't had the luxury of tuning one of these standalone OS's, but looking through the calibration there are actually a few duplicate tables with identical settings. I would modify them and keep them the same - kind of like having to make the VE 1 and 2 tables the same every time you changed one. So modify one then copy and paste into the other differently named table.

So when you reduce them is it a very small percentage? 2-5%? Or something like 10%?

[GHuggins]

Don't decrease the whole table - just the areas of torque and throttle where you cruise. Adjustments depend a lot on how worn the trans is and what you're after.

On built transmissions for example a lot of the time you have to increase the values for 0 pedal P & D shifts to soften them up and not have horrible bangs into gear. More worn transmissions I have had to take up to 20% out in some areas, but at that point you're fighting a never ending uphill battle. I would start with 2 to 5 just to see how it acts for you then go from there and keep the transitions smooth.

[TheMechanic]

Don't decrease the whole table - just the areas of torque and throttle where you cruise. Adjustments depend a lot on how worn the trans is and what you're after.

On built transmissions for example a lot of the time you have to increase the values for 0 pedal P & D shifts to soften them up and not have horrible bangs into gear. More worn transmissions I have had to take up to 20% out in some areas, but at that point you're fighting a never ending uphill battle. I would start with 2 to 5 just to see how it acts for you then go from there and keep the transitions smooth.

Know what you mean by having to soften up the low TQ areas. Some of these re builders like them to break your teeth when you are just cruising to the 7-11. Going to have to gives those a try