Need spark table advice

[bson]

Hi,
In my street rod I have a LS1 engine from a Camaro 2002 with LS6 cam and LS6 (243) heads. I'm also running it in SD mode without MAF sensor. I have tuned the VE table using wideband lambda and HP Tuners and the engine is running nice i my opinion.

Since my engine is probably more like an LS6 rather than LS1 I thought maybe I should try the base spark table for LS6 rather than the stock LS1 table. I downloaded a stock tune for a Corvette C5 Z06 2002 and compared the spark tables and they differ a lot.

Would it be a good idea to try the LS6 spark table and is it likely I get more power?

This is the stock LS1 table I'm running at the moment:
Screenshot 2023-03-07 at 16.10.18.png

This is the LS6 table I'm tempted to try out:
Screenshot 2023-03-07 at 16.12.07.png

Thank you for any advice!

[bk2life]

LS engines dont like lots of spark.
what else have you done, other portions of the tune?
im not new, but im not a master like some of the others in here, but, i keep timing pretty much stock until maf, idle, ve, stft's are pretty decent. after i get those squared away i start adding more timing

[kingtal0n]

There is more to timing than merely spark table. I recommend you go through the software and identify ALL of the spark related tables. For example there is a spark modify table for coolant temp, air temp, air fuel ratio, and possible one related to power enrichment. They all need to connect to make sense.

Max LS timing for OEM style engines with reasonable gasoline compression ratios is generally around 24* btdc for 100% theoretical volumetric efficiency.
At around 15 to 16psi of boost in LS style engines with 9.5:1 compression ratio on gasoline the ideal timing in my experience is around 12 to 13.5 degree btdc with 500-600rwhp (roughly 200% Theoretical VE)


Timing doesn't make power. Forced induction makes power with minimum timing. The more power you make the less timing you will run.
That means if you are hoping to increase power, you would reduce the timing and add more air density.

Increasing timing can damage an engine gradually or suddenly. Best case scenario it will wear the rod bearings prematurely.
You can NOT depend on knock sensors to tune or govern the timing in a performance engine.

The goal of timing is to position the mean effective cylinder pressure over the most useful rod and stroke angles of the power stroke given the available fuel octane, temperature and air density.

General goals for timing map:
1. The map needs to be smooth. I like the first map you posted it is very smooth.
2. The map should flow gradually with changing numbers. I do not like to see the same numbers in two adjacent left to right cells. The number should always move one direction or the other from left to right.
3. Always program a worse case scenario timing dip/valley (low timing spot) centered near peak torque for street and daily driver applications.
4. Use the minimum timing possible which can maintain reasonable EGT for all WOT situations to preserve the engine.

EGT is a sign of where energy is going. If you want to play with timing you should be thinking about the EGT. As power drops out because of reduced timing, the fuel will burn in exhaust raising the EGT. The goal is to get as close to the edge of MINIMUM timing where the EGT is still low and reasonable. This will give the engine MAXIMUM HEADROOM for future situations where the fuel octane is stressed by temperature and load conditions that are not present at the time of tuning.

[04silverado6.0]

If you can post your tune file as current i can give you a spark map to get you close while still being safe.

[bson]

If you can post your tune file as current i can give you a spark map to get you close while still being safe.

Thank you 04silverado6.0, that would be awesome if you could do that. First of all my "hardware" set up is as follows:

GM LS1 from a Camaro 2002
GM LS6 cam
GM LS6 heads (Cast 243)
Holley Single-Plane intake manifold, 300-137
Holley Four Barrel 4150 Throttle Body
Holley Fule Rails
Stock LS1 injectors
Stock LS1 PCM with custom os for speed density mode

IMG_4093 small.jpg

The tune file is attached.

Thank you!

[04silverado6.0]

I might be late to the party. I have made an edit you can test. It may be too aggressive on the low end so pay close attention to any signs of detonation.

[bson]

I might be late to the party. I have made an edit you can test. It may be too aggressive on the low end so pay close attention to any signs of detonation.

Hi 04silverado6.0,
You're not late to the party . I'll give this spark table a careful try watching knock retard closely.

Thank you!