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Thread: 6.0 injection timing theory

  1. #1
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    6.0 injection timing theory

    This is a stock timing map from an 06 6.0 full boost. Stock tune on truck. Why is the timing all over the place? Why wouldn't it be more linear and smoother? I even have a custom tune from a popular tuner that was put on by my sct years ago. The timing map is all over the place also. I am just trying to learn what's the thought behind this.

    What would be a good starting point from idle up the rpm range? What would be a recommend advance maximum btdc? My truck has a stock motor, kc stage 3, 205/30 warrens. Daily driver/ commuter looking for maximum potential of my setup.
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    .....
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  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    This is just my THEORY. your stock table is all over the place because oem calibrators are looking for-

    emissions reduction in the areas the motor typically run IE: cruising

    "Power" for towing in the mid to high throttle points in the upper RPM band

    and your idle is so low on timing because... well.. its quieter.

    A linier map is not always the best idea either. take for instance cruising area you want a higher degree of timing to create more torque to keep you at cruising speeds.

    Right below your cruising area you have your (what i call) Lugging area, you don't want much timing because you are loading the cylinders with a lot of fuel and not much air that's a recipe for high cylinder pressures.

    Above your cruising areas you have your "towing" which you don't want a lot of timing in or else things get a little squirrelly and ring lands or pistons tend to go boom.

    Then you have your WOT section- more linier in the wot section than anywhere in the map in all honesty.

    If you need help i have a lot of tunes i have made and can help as much as i can. just PM me
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  4. #4
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    bless timing.PNG
    yea if you want your timing like blessed tunes this is what they do.. not ideal for someone looking for power. for a gas engine this is ideal, not a diesel.

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    ^^ perfect example that looks like their tow tune.

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    Well it makes sense what you say about cruising rpms, lugging, towing and wot. I'm not looking to copy some tune. I have some performance tunes that max out at 14 degrees btdc at wot around 4000 rpm, sounds like alot, im just looking for recommended guidance to dial mine in without destroying this motor.

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Powerstrokecustoms View Post
    bless timing.PNG
    yea if you want your timing like blessed tunes this is what they do.. not ideal for someone looking for power. for a gas engine this is ideal, not a diesel.
    Is this for real??? That has to run like shit......

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    Is this for real??? That has to run like shit......
    Unfortunately that is 100% real.

    I don?t know which tune that is off hand but you should see the tow tune he calls towboss..
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

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    Well thats easy to make a timing curve like that blessed tunes, but maybe they are just guessing.

    What kinda of maps do you guys make? Do you follow along the ways of the stock map and go from there? I'm trying to understand the full boost vs no boost thresholds. Does the full boost timing use that timing map if the pressures are above what the full boost threshold says? Same for the no boost threshold? There's seems to be a gap in between the two maps pressure set points.

  10. #10
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarbash27 View Post
    Well thats easy to make a timing curve like that blessed tunes, but maybe they are just guessing.

    What kinda of maps do you guys make? Do you follow along the ways of the stock map and go from there? I'm trying to understand the full boost vs no boost thresholds. Does the full boost timing use that timing map if the pressures are above what the full boost threshold says? Same for the no boost threshold? There's seems to be a gap in between the two maps pressure set points.


    What year is your truck?

    On my 03 6.0 I don?t have the limits I can set for no boos threshold. But typically (for me) it always runs in full boost timing table
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  11. #11
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    Mine is an 07 but I lost my stock tune years ago. I have been on a gearhead extreme tune for about 8 years. I recently upgraded turbo and injectors so I just started with hp tuner. I have been referencing a 06 6.0 from an f-450 to compare stock to my tunes.

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner projectlnf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarbash27 View Post
    Mine is an 07 but I lost my stock tune years ago. I have been on a gearhead extreme tune for about 8 years. I recently upgraded turbo and injectors so I just started with hp tuner. I have been referencing a 06 6.0 from an f-450 to compare stock to my tunes.
    GH is a much better company than the previous stated one.

    Post what tune you have made so far and we can help you.
    2003 Ford excursion 6.0 PSD
    No limit intake
    Straight pipe
    Studded
    EGR delete
    KC billet single plane compressor wheel
    Self Tuned
    XDP Regulated return
    RDP Fuel sump
    AEM progressive water meth
    Custom suspension air bags
    8" lift
    35" tires

  13. #13
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    Well this is basically the tune I had from GH for a 63.5 Powermax and stock injectors, I ran it for years fine. Now I have KC stage 3 and warren 205/30. This tune always ran a lower icp. Its runs pretty good as is but I have not data logged it yet, Im still trying to figure that out.
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    needs a lot of work. icp is super low. your hardly putting out any boost. its not going to be just change some things here and there, its pretty much everything..

  15. #15
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    I understand thats just the tune I bought from GH when I first got my sct back in 2014.

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner JaegerWrenching's Avatar
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    The actual ICP probably isn't low, the sensor is just rescaled to read lower pressure than actual pressure which is why the ICP map is set the way it is. It's a old school tuning thing and I'm not a fan of it. I also don't like how the low elevation ICP map is set to basically unachievable numbers because of that.... 14MPA in your tune is 28MPA actual.

  17. #17
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    I believe you are right jaeger, my hpop system has no leaks and a canned sct tune runs much higher pressure.

  18. #18
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    icp pressure on that tune is fine for stock injectors, not 205/30s. for starters your gunna run out of high pressure oil on the stock pump. you should be running like an atlas stage 2 or something to accommodate those injectors. stock pump is only good up to 175/30's.. second the tune needs to have way more oil than 25mpa,, needs to go up to at least 35mpa. your ipr should be maxed out on the icp vs flow at the high end.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by JaegerWrenching View Post
    Is this for real??? That has to run like shit......
    I concur 110% are we talking blessed performance?

  20. #20
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    yea and as many of you dont know, matt story doesnt know how to do any tuning what so ever. he bought all his tunes from a guy named nate at whipple performance. he posted all the time on facebook that he was writing tunes. then i looked him up on sct and he wasnt even a tuning dealer. then when i ordered some tunes from him to take a look and see why everyone was buying his tunes, he got mad once he found out who he sold tunes to. i took a look at the tune files and it looks like someone was trying to tune for a gas truck. hardly made any power. Then i did more digging and found out he bought everything.