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Thread: Wot high timing issue

  1. #1
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    Wot high timing issue

    I have a 2016 jeep srt-8 with an HRT cam comp stage 1 camshaft with a phaser cam lock. I use the neutral network. Everything is fine with a good afr and the wot is fine. Only if I lower the timing in the cards nothing works. I also changed the MBT base spark timing data to 10 degrees. despite all this, the jeep drives 17-22 degrees out of synch a wot. I do not know what to do..

    Thank you for your help
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  2. #2
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    I tried the jeep in speed density mode still the same problem

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner N2speed's Avatar
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    that is a lot of timing for a 6.4L you are going to hurt something, also need to post a log as other factors control timing.


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  4. #4
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    Here is a log file thank you really
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  5. #5
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    Look at your engine coolant temp and your intake air temp on the log and then open the tune and look at those tables in spark > advance. You need to fix both of those.

    As far as the numbers being off by 20? they?re not. You only backed down .95 and 1.00g (the very bottom of the chart). I am guessing it?s not going over .9? Add air charge to the P IDs

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    Also put some gas in that thing. I would not be doing pull?s with only 10% in the tank!

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner PurpleRam's Avatar
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    Try this one,

    Your WOT table is too low @ .90 .95 1.00 , and your right foot is Demanding a ton of Power (Congrats on the 155 MPH in a rolling brick FWIW you're using roughly 465HP at the wheels at that speed) so in order for the ECU to give you what you're asking for it's jumping to the MBT table,

    since you are logging MAP , it's an easy conversion to Aircharge , do your self a favor and download an old NGC3 or NGC4 tune, and compare the MAP row axis to your Aircharge AXIS.........they both have 17 value points, so look at it like this for stock tables( it leaves you boosted guys to your own devisees) your PT table starts at .08 Aircharge and ends at 1.0, on the MAP(KPA) table it's 10KPA (.08 Aircharge) 105KPA(1.0 Aircharge) .
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  8. #8
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    It"s on a dyno and he is not logging MAP or Aircharge
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    don tanklage

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner PurpleRam's Avatar
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    any way....since you are LOGGING MAP , just remember you can translate it over to Aircharge.

    this thing have headers ? Knock sensor #2 is bounces too much

    also if you decide to go speed density route, bring up the FA in the circled area in the screen grab 2015 Jeep Fuel(B) , it shoul keep it from pulling timing there at 2200ish
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  10. #10
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    Might wanna try something like this if you are running pump gas:
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    don tanklage

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner rays04gtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSick View Post
    Might wanna try something like this if you are running pump gas:
    we should see if his issue gets fixed 1st, there's a reason it's using the MBT table and not WOT table .......Looking at the log it goes from PT Table to MBT table right around 2100 RPMs.
    it's also having a fuel issue.
    62 Biscayne 425/409 SS/D stock class car 10.60s
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  12. #12
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    At 2100 rpm and 99 kpa i am not certain where its getting its number. I think that is what the op is saying too
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  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner rays04gtx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSick View Post
    At 2100 rpm and 99 kpa i am not certain where its getting its number. I think that is what the op is saying too
    it's using the MBT table because the TQ request is greater then the WOT can deliver,
    He's recording absolute load , create a gauge(Chart V Time) for that PID , you'll see it drops to almost 50% before he gets off the throttle.
    His Pedal is set to 2.9V for WOT triggers, so everything above 60%TPS should be using WOT ,
    Absolute Load climbs to 96.8 @ 3500 RPMs then starts doing some funny things, As RPMs increase , Load drops below 90% and the ECU is adding Timing but the Knock sensors are not liking it, it's at 4400RPMs if we look at 4224 and 4800 RPMs cells on both WOT and MBT tables @ .90 Aircharge we see WOT table is 13-13.5* which is below what the VCM is showing us...MBT table is 8 , but remember these ECUs are performing Xamount a calculations, it's looking at WOT table and taking 13* & 13.5* (averaging them (ish) adding 8 to and dividing which yields 10.62 to 10.75 , which when all other factors are added and weighed in, 10.7* will not make the power requested by his right foot....so next is MBT which is (19 to 20.5+8)/2(in the 85 aircharge columns) =14.25* Log shows 14.5 which is closer to meeting TQ request.....remember the ECU is looking at more then one value , it's taking all values around each cell and deciding which fits it's TQ demand.
    (under stand in no way am I trying to be a d!ck)
    Look at the The screen grab attached , create a VCM single plane using the PID(channels) and watch the dance between Spark/Load/Knock Retard)
    The Eq Ratio does it's thing as soon as TPS hits 58% (2.9V/5V) O2's are right where you would want them. as more TQ is requested , the Tables as is can't create what is asked for

    the Two timing tables I attached ,are from a 2015 SRT Jeeps ,same cam HRT1 cam. one was the 1st version , 2nd is what he's been driving on since 2016 .
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    62 Biscayne 425/409 SS/D stock class car 10.60s
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    04 Ram All Alum , 468Ci G3 10.50s @4800 lbs Naturally asperated
    04 Rumble Bee, built 6.1 ,4000lbs 10.48 @ 129s MPH. Naturally asperated
    05 Rumble Stock 5.7, 3.92s TUNE ONLY 13.94@98mph

  14. #14
    What is causing the Commanded EQ to run at .8 Lambda flat to 6400 rpm when the PE tables are asking for .86 Lambda up to 4800 rpm ending with .82 Lambda by 6400 rpm?
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  15. #15
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    is it using the aircharge based table and again... not dipping into the 900 and up rows???

    Thats what it looks like. I havent even started messing with my fueling. Where does it show what method he is using for wot? I rememeber it is tricky to find.

    Something i noticed (because my MAP wasnt reading and i had to add generic) is that they read different. Could this be why its not dipping into the bottom rows??? Look:
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    don tanklage

  16. #16
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    the MAP i use in the layout reads much lower on my car than the one i had to add to see it on his log
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    don tanklage

  17. #17
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    Whatcha figure out???????

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner PurpleRam's Avatar
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    Ray’s in Germany again, and I’m stuck doing some dyno work the next few days. I know that doesn’t answer your question, but I’m not ignoring you
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