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Thread: DeutschWerks injector issues

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    DeutschWerks injector issues

    Much to my surprise a 2003 1500HD customer who I haven't seen in a few years who I tried to tell him never use Chinese injectors with NO data. I fudged and seemed to get it right and it worked pretty well. So he had an injector fail (who would have thought) so I told him about the 50lb GM injectors that work GREAT for his application and perfect data.
    He buys a $600 set of 17U-21-0050-8 DW's. I get the data and it does not match up at all. GM_injector_data_17u-50_1.0.xlsxIDLE.hplTUNE 1 INJECTORS TO 59LBS.hpt
    I call DW. He says they are wrong for the vehicle but will work..... Huh? So he tells me run them at 57lbs across as it is a return style regulated motor. It has a moderate to large cam but here is the thing. It will only idle. Any sudden movement seems to go into DFCO. I should have just let this one go until some good data injectors are installed but I want to just get it running. I have to feather the pedal to get rpm. I'm not getting any data from the scanner for LTFT or STFT's. VERY little data other than a bunch of zero's. Maybe just have the wrong layout. Anybody wanna check this for me? I tried going up a couple pounds at a time on flow. with only a slight improvement.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    up to 62lbs
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Offset vs Volts vs VAC table is wrong, for a referenced regulator. Whole table should be using the 0 kPa column all the way across.

    TUNE 1 INJECTORS TO 59LBS - DW data.hpt

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    Thank you. I just copied straight across. As always you pulled my a** out of the fire.

    OK so where did I go wrong? How did you get that info that I couldn't?
    Last edited by TheMechanic; 03-18-2023 at 08:03 PM.

  5. #5
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Copied just the 0 kPa column from the sheet, and then pastepastepastepastepaste(etc.) all the way across.

    Tip: You don't have to release the CTRL key, you can hold it down the whole time while you select the next column and then just tap V and select the next column..

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    So do you believe that the 59lb selection is correct for this? Using a flow calculator it shows 57lbs. I was purely throwing numbers to see what effect I had to see if something changed in a good direction until some 12613412's arrived. I swear I don't understand why people can't just listen and go with know parts and known data. He looked at an advertisemnt and was drawn like a moth to a flame. I know why used car salesmen make so much money.

  7. #7
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    Thats easy... Just tell them your not touching it unless they get certain parts..
    I do this everyday unfortunately.
    Nothing like some one wanting you to tune a Turbo 4.8 with a small cam and 2600cc injectors on a E38 with the 63# injector limit and a 6L80 also running 93 octane..

  8. #8
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Is the DW datasheet giving specs for 43psi rail, or 58? Usually the 43psi number is just for labeling/advertising, like an industry standard thing.

    It says flow @ 0 kPa vacuum is 59.6...

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RDF1 View Post
    Thats easy... Just tell them your not touching it unless they get certain parts..
    I do this everyday unfortunately.
    Nothing like some one wanting you to tune a Turbo 4.8 with a small cam and 2600cc injectors on a E38 with the 63# injector limit and a 6L80 also running 93 octane..
    This particular customer is EXACTLY that. He looks at something shiny and it dazzles him

    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    Is the DW datasheet giving specs for 43psi rail, or 58? Usually the 43psi number is just for labeling/advertising, like an industry standard thing.

    It says flow @ 0 kPa vacuum is 59.6...
    Yes the flow rate is at 43.5=50lb. Thank you again.

  10. #10
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    But it says also that it's "550cc/min", which is not 50lb-hr, it's like 52.something. I'd guess that the 50lb number is just generic marketing stuff and the GM-format datasheet is what they do using standard GM fuel pressure.

    https://deatschwerks.com/products/17u-21-0050-8

    There's a datasheet there, it's different than the one you posted... but only in that the Short Pulse Adder data is out to 4 decimals instead of 3. Effectively the same data.

    Kinda like how a "Deka 80" flows 94 at 58psi.

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    But it says also that it's "550cc/min", which is not 50lb-hr, it's like 52.something. I'd guess that the 50lb number is just generic marketing stuff and the GM-format datasheet is what they do using standard GM fuel pressure.

    https://deatschwerks.com/products/17u-21-0050-8

    There's a datasheet there, it's different than the one you posted... but only in that the Short Pulse Adder data is out to 4 decimals instead of 3. Effectively the same data.

    Kinda like how a "Deka 80" flows 94 at 58psi.
    I had to put in 4 days of calling DW at 2 calls per day. Always just got tech assist voice mail. On day 4 I said I wanted to speak to someone in charge. That's when I got my call back. I explained VERY thoroughly what I had. Year, make, model, engine, return vac referenced, moderate cam etc. etc. He said the excel file is good to go copy over directly from LS1 data and use 57lb straight across.
    To say they burned this bridge is an understatement. Frustrating to say the least.

  12. #12
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Well?

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    It did not work. Same as before. Sorry I didn't get back to you. Idles but falls flat on accel. Told him we will try as soon as he gets a good set of injectors. Hope this time he listens. I feel like without good accurate injector data I'll be chasing my tail and wasting my time. If you see something else that might be it I'll give it a try otherwise I will wait for his GM 12613412 to come in from ebay.
    Still haven't figured out why I don't have LTFT's in my channels, charts, or graphs. Everything is a bunch of zeros. I refreshed many times.
    Last edited by TheMechanic; 03-21-2023 at 07:29 PM.

  14. #14
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    Whats the wideband telling you?

  15. #15
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    Did this only start after the new injectors?

  16. #16
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    check fuel pressure if you haven't already.

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    Did this only start after the new injectors?
    Yes. After the injector swap. All work performed by the customer. I would not have installed them if they were given to me.
    Was running fine on his china 50lb injectors I took an educated guess at. Actually ran pretty good. Told him to get your eBay injectors. Again he ignored me and spent $600 on DW injectors. He said he gave them his trucks info and that is the injectors they sent. When I called they said those are only for Camaro/Corvette and are 50lbs at 43.5psi. Oh and taller. F'n customers and their mistakes. I have told him if he doesn't get the correct injectors he is on his own and can tow it to another tuner to deal with.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheMechanic View Post
    Yes. After the injector swap. All work performed by the customer. I would not have installed them if they were given to me.
    Was running fine on his china 50lb injectors I took an educated guess at. Actually ran pretty good. Told him to get your eBay injectors. Again he ignored me and spent $600 on DW injectors. He said he gave them his trucks info and that is the injectors they sent. When I called they said those are only for Camaro/Corvette and are 50lbs at 43.5psi. Oh and taller. F'n customers and their mistakes. I have told him if he doesn't get the correct injectors he is on his own and can tow it to another tuner to deal with.
    I've not had issues using DW injectors. I think they are acutally one of the really good brands out there from my experience.

    I'm sure at this point you've got exactly the right injector data in? Want to post a current file so we can double check?

    If the regulator is fix the injector flow rate vs pressure and offset vs pressure will be the same value left to right.
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  19. #19
    Senior Tuner TheMechanic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alvin View Post
    I've not had issues using DW injectors. I think they are acutally one of the really good brands out there from my experience.

    I'm sure at this point you've got exactly the right injector data in? Want to post a current file so we can double check?

    If the regulator is fix the injector flow rate vs pressure and offset vs pressure will be the same value left to right.
    The last one I used was BlindSquirrells. The data sheet is the excel sheet in post #1. The vehicle is other than a CAI, and a mildly aggressive cam. Otherwise vehicle is a stock 1500HD 6.0 liter 4L80e. It uses a return style referenced pressure regulator at 58 psi. Had a set of Chinese 50lbs on it and it ran pretty good and fuel trims were in the <5%. He just couldn't leave well enough alone.

  20. #20
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    Where did he buy the injectors? Maybe they are counterfeit DW?