Tuning MAF and VVE at the Same Time

[Cringer]

Still needs vertical and horizontal smoothing and for the shaping have it to where you can click on the 3d pic and drag cells up or down. That's the way I shape it in the editor like what you're talking about

I also assume you can change cam positions and apply errors to those new positions?

Yes I would like to have an interactive 3D chart, but I am not there yet! I have horizontal and vertical interpolation. I have not yet coded the smoothing...just trying to think how I want to implement it...maybe have a fine, medium and course smoothing option.

[TheMechanic]

Make sure your fuel pressure is good. I've only had two of these that didn't idle right. One had the MAF right after an elbow and on top of that, the fuel supply was dropping out due to pump and tank location. New better fuel system and a lot of MAF tuning took care of it. The other was a rock crawler and the guy had put some lead additive in it by mistake. Clogged his 3 filters including jamming the regulator in the final filter and caused some sticking issues with his injectors. New filters, system flush and running some stuff through his injectors and it was back going good. Just saying cause it's a sand buggy.

Idle setting in the stock cal will be as low as you will be able to or want to go. Stock stall should handle that unless the stator in the converter is bad. Been seeing that lately with cheapo converters... These motors run really good even in their stock configuration with injection timing and other changes. I often have to detune them for customers after they drive them with a good tune in the old Ford bodies especially cause they get a wee bit scary when you stomp them doing 50 or 60 and it still wants to work the rear end around. Now do a LT swap with a 10sp in a heavier older car with good suspension and brakes and they really haul

Has a good aftermarket regulator. Dead nuts 60psi

Oh and Cringer. You were spot on with the zones. Put the zones in first and then the rest and bang. Zones showed up. I'm getting there.

Hey one more thing. Can you critique my layout? Been working on it for a while. Kind of a mish mash of what seems to be the current trend. I won't tell you how much time I have into it. Hahahaha
CURRENT GEN4 LAYOUT NOV 2023.Layout.xml

[Cringer]

Has a good aftermarket regulator. Dead nuts 60psi

Oh and Cringer. You were spot on with the zones. Put the zones in first and then the rest and bang. Zones showed up. I'm getting there.

Hey one more thing. Can you critique my layout? Been working on it for a while. Kind of a mish mash of what seems to be the current trend. I won't tell you how much time I have into it. Hahahaha
CURRENT GEN4 LAYOUT NOV 2023.Layout.xml

It is a bit busy for my tastes...but I am not a professional tuner. I just have different layouts for specific things I load as needed rather than one large one.
Of course the biggest problem IMHO is that you are using the GMVE formulas rather than Dynamic Air ;-D

[SiriusC1024]

...Of course the biggest problem IMHO is that you are using the GMVE formulas rather than Dynamic Air ;-D

Hahah true!

[TheMechanic]

Do you have a guide or a layout that includes the dynamic air so I can put it into my layout?
I went through this and I am brain numb.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ht=dynamic+air
Thank you in advance.

[Cringer]

Do you have a guide or a layout that includes the dynamic air so I can put it into my layout?
I went through this and I am brain numb.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ht=dynamic+air
Thank you in advance.

Just go back to the first post in this thread then copy/paste to create some new formulas. Then swap out any references to whatever you are using for GMVE or MAF with them.
This should work too... https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...usp=drive_link
I copied all the stuff over at some point, but not sure if any one has tested it.

[GHuggins]

Unless I'm wrong the updated formulas are at the end of that thread aren't they or maybe you already updated them it looks like?

This is what I've been using and so far working very well.

Dyn Closed Loop using fuel trim corrections -
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+[50114.156])/100))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100

Filter for it -
ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 & ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 95

There's also this filter which includes some more -
ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 & ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 75 AND ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0

I forget to update my channel configs to log everything needed for it. The first one works really good either way.

On a side note the VVE formulas I assume are for correcting the MAF while in SD mode correct? Looked like it from the looks of the formula. This is an important one everyone should be doing with SD tunes

I should also note a big Thank You to Cringer and Sirius for all of this!!! Makes life a lot easier and tunes a lot better. Especially the VE tool

[Cringer]

Unless I'm wrong the updated formulas are at the end of that thread aren't they or maybe you already updated them it looks like?

This is what I've been using and so far working very well.

Dyn Closed Loop using fuel trim corrections -
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+[50114.156])/100))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100

Filter for it -
ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 & ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 95

There's also this filter which includes some more -
ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 & ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 75 AND ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0

I forget to update my channel configs to log everything needed for it. The first one works really good either way.

On a side note the VVE formulas I assume are for correcting the MAF while in SD mode correct? Looked like it from the looks of the formula. This is an important one everyone should be doing with SD tunes

I should also note a big Thank You to Cringer and Sirius for all of this!!! Makes life a lot easier and tunes a lot better. Especially the VE tool

I edited the updated Dynamic Air formulas to the first post. I have not tried any of Sirius filter formulas yet as I have been able to do much active tuning lately. The formulas are made to work in hybrid mode. You can go into SD, but that is not needed at all.

[dassaur]

Thanks Cringer for all this, newbie and trying to learn. Just wanted to say appreciate it. I've watched the vids and slowly but surely getting there

[Cringer]

Thanks Cringer for all this, newbie and trying to learn. Just wanted to say appreciate it. I've watched the vids and slowly but surely getting there

You are welcome! If you have any questions please ask away.

[hasanyoneseenmyson]

I've read this and the corresponding threads several times. Is there any way your Dynamic method can be implemented for gen 3 VE that I'm not understanding? MAF calibration part seems to work fine especially with the recently devised filters. The current limitation I'm unable to find a resolution for is gen 3 not supporting the Volumetric Airflow pid.

[Cringer]

I've read this and the corresponding threads several times. Is there any way your Dynamic method can be implemented for gen 3 VE that I'm not understanding? MAF calibration part seems to work fine especially with the recently devised filters. The current limitation I'm unable to find a resolution for is gen 3 not supporting the Volumetric Airflow pid.

Sorry, I do not have any experience on Gen3's and I do not know if Dynamic Air is implemented the same way as it is on Gen 4 and Gen 5. If it is not accessible in your scanner, then I think you have your answer and you are going to have to use the legacy methods for tuning.

[FetzerValve]

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere throughout the many threads dealing with this, but how many cell hits should I set my filter to?

[Cringer]

Forgive me if I missed it somewhere throughout the many threads dealing with this, but how many cell hits should I set my filter to?

I don't think there is a single or correct answer to this question. But, the more cell hits the better is the best advice I have. I'd say 20-50 is probably a good starting point.

Part of this also comes down to how many RPMs there are between breakpoints in your VVE table. If you're in the 2000 rpm column, you could realistically be logging data for 1800 - 2200 rpm (depending on your break points). Same logic applies to MAF Hz breakpoints too...so getting sufficient data under sufficient running conditions is just as important, if not more important than cell hits.

[FetzerValve]

Much appreciated. I'm going to start at 50 and see what kind of data I get.

[FetzerValve]

I don't think there is a single or correct answer to this question. But, the more cell hits the better is the best advice I have. I'd say 20-50 is probably a good starting point.

Part of this also comes down to how many RPMs there are between breakpoints in your VVE table. If you're in the 2000 rpm column, you could realistically be logging data for 1800 - 2200 rpm (depending on your break points). Same logic applies to MAF Hz breakpoints too...so getting sufficient data under sufficient running conditions is just as important, if not more important than cell hits.

Got everything set up and have data populating my table using your filters and math from the google drive. My question now is what all should I turn off on the vehicle to make sure I'm getting good, usable data? I'm guessing DFCO, at a minimum. What else?

Thanks!

[Cringer]

Got everything set up and have data populating my table using your filters and math from the google drive. My question now is what all should I turn off on the vehicle to make sure I'm getting good, usable data? I'm guessing DFCO, at a minimum. What else?

Thanks!

All the usual stuff:
DFCO
CFCO
COT
DOD
LTFT
Desoot

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

[GHuggins]

OK, it may have been mentioned in here already, but is there a way to work around the airflow limits of the scanner? I wasn't paying attention on one and made a 30% correction only for the next log to want the same thing over again at which time I realized I was hitting the limit and switched over to the airmass equation to finish out my VE table.

[FetzerValve]

All the usual stuff:
DFCO
CFCO
COT
DOD
LTFT
Desoot

That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Much appreciated. Only the DFCO, LTFTs and Desoot apply to me. Follow-up question: I'm using the following formula for logging, which includes STFTs and LTFTs. I'm guessing I should leave LTFTs enabled if I continue to use this formula. Correct?

(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+[50114.156])/100))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100

Just for information, I'm using the following filters.

ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 & ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 95

Thanks again.

[Cringer]

Much appreciated. Only the DFCO, LTFTs and Desoot apply to me. Follow-up question: I'm using the following formula for logging, which includes STFTs and LTFTs. I'm guessing I should leave LTFTs enabled if I continue to use this formula. Correct?

(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+[50114.156])/100))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100

Just for information, I'm using the following filters.

ABS([50040.71]-[50040.71.shift(-10)]) < ([50040.71]/[50040.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 & ABS([2311.71]-[2311.71.shift(-10)]) < ([2311.71]/[2311.71.shift(-10)])*0.1 OR [50090.156] > 95

Thanks again.

I have had my LTFT's disabled for a long time now. But I use the formula you posted above...however, the only way that works is that you have to have the LTFT channel added to your channel list. It will report 0% but that is necessary for the formula to work since it is look at both ST and LT.

The other option is, keep LTFT disabled and remove it from the channel list and use these formulas instead which only look at STFT:
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156])/100))-[50040.71])/[50040.71]*100
(([2320.71]+([2320.71]*([50116.156]+0)/100))-[2311.71])/[2311.71]*100



That filter looks like the one Sirius created, right? If so, I have not used it myself. However, I do not feel like it is needed, so I stick my mine:

CL
[2517.161.avg(1500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-200)]=0 and (abs([50090.156.slope(1500)])+abs([50090.156.slope(-500)]))<2 and ([6310]=9 OR [6310]=14 OR [6310]=15)=0

PE
[2517.161.avg(1500)]=0 and [2517.161.avg(-200)]=0 and (abs([50090.156.slope(250)])+abs([50090.156.slope(-250)]))<2 and [6310.avg(250)]=9