LS7 Trying to Use LTFT Tuning Until...

[Les10]

I took a look at your other thread and yes, you're process to disable VVE and MAF is correct. Edit your "as found" file and name it something different when saving; something like "Speed Density." If you save it as "as found" you will loose your stock file and you always want it to revert back to if needed. I'm attaching a screenshot of the different engine modes which helped me starting out. (still a novice with limited knowledge)

Once you disable the VVE side of things, you will be tuning MAF. Now, your scanner has to be set up to to capture the data. You will need to log the Mass Airflow Sensor channel and make sure the unit is in hz. Also, log the channel Mass Airflow (SAE). Then you will set up your graph. Basically, you open your tune in editor, highlight and copy the columns and paste those into the graph in the scanner. You may have to right click on the graphs tab and go to "graphs layout." Click the icon of a graph with the + sign on it and add table. Click on the graph that populated on the left hand of the layout and fill it out like the one in the photo i have attached. Others may chime in and say there is a better way but at least you'll get the feel for creating your graphs. That should get you to where you can grab some data. Then, highlight the data>right click>copy. Then highlight the table in Editor>right click> multiply % half and smooth. Hope this helps. I'm not the greatest at explaining things haha!




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Thanks for those info attachments LS Rob, the stuff on SD & closed loop is part of what I was having trouble understanding. I need help for sure so let me kind of tell you where I'm at. I understand basic PC stuff, renaming files so you maintain the originals etc. Saving as ... , no problem. Over the last 3 weeks I have learned how to add the appropriate channels in the Scanner, create the graphs/histograms as well as copying & pasting the data into some of the tables. What I don't see info on is when I disable stuff (MAF, etc.) is that just for logging data? You say I was disabling correctly, does that include the part where I changed values in the Fuel - Deceleration Fuel Cutoff - Enable & Disable? Is that just for VVE tuning or do you do it for MAF tuning also? After I log, apply the data to the tune & get everything where I want it, Do I go back & undo the changes I made to disable stuff? Does it go back to a normal state after tuning is done? Is the disabling just for data-logging? I know I gotta a lot of questions & I appreciate your patience!!

[LS ROB]

Thanks for those info attachments LS Rob, the stuff on SD & closed loop is part of what I was having trouble understanding. I need help for sure so let me kind of tell you where I'm at. I understand basic PC stuff, renaming files so you maintain the originals etc. Saving as ... , no problem. Over the last 3 weeks I have learned how to add the appropriate channels in the Scanner, create the graphs/histograms as well as copying & pasting the data into some of the tables. What I don't see info on is when I disable stuff (MAF, etc.) is that just for logging data? You say I was disabling correctly, does that include the part where I changed values in the Fuel - Deceleration Fuel Cutoff - Enable & Disable? Is that just for VVE tuning or do you do it for MAF tuning also? After I log, apply the data to the tune & get everything where I want it, Do I go back & undo the changes I made to disable stuff? Does it go back to a normal state after tuning is done? Is the disabling just for data-logging? I know I gotta a lot of questions & I appreciate your patience!!

Gotcha. Before we get ahead of ourselves, your injector data needs to be verified to be correct. I can try to help with that but honestly, someone with more experience may have to chime in. List the part number on your injectors so we will know what you are working with. Once that info is verified, you can proceed to tuning. I got ahead of myself with that MAF revision.

I would tune 1 thing at a time in closed loop for part throttle. Any WOT action will need to be tuned with a wideband. You are correct thinking that when you disable stuff, it is only for logging data. Yes, DFCO was disabled correctly. For CFCO, i would max out the temp and RPM enable fields as well. So, with that said; WHILE TUNING, anything you have disabled, you will leave disabled. Then after you are happy with the results, you can re-enable the things you disabled to begin with. What i would do is; disable VVE and run MAF only and tune it until you are happy with the results. (Slow steady throttle movements) Then, i would disable the MAF side of things and tune VVE until you are you are happy with the results. Then re-enable everything that was disabled.

[Les10]

Gotcha. Before we get ahead of ourselves, your injector data needs to be verified to be correct. I can try to help with that but honestly, someone with more experience may have to chime in. List the part number on your injectors so we will know what you are working with. Once that info is verified, you can proceed to tuning. I got ahead of myself with that MAF revision.

I would tune 1 thing at a time in closed loop for part throttle. Any WOT action will need to be tuned with a wideband. You are correct thinking that when you disable stuff, it is only for logging data. Yes, DFCO was disabled correctly. For CFCO, i would max out the temp and RPM enable fields as well. So, with that said; WHILE TUNING, anything you have disabled, you will leave disabled. Then after you are happy with the results, you can re-enable the things you disabled to begin with. What i would do is; disable VVE and run MAF only and tune it until you are happy with the results. (Slow steady throttle movements) Then, i would disable the MAF side of things and tune VVE until you are you are happy with the results. Then re-enable everything that was disabled.

Thanks so much, I fully understand. Now the disabling you mentioned is disabling VVE for tuning the MAF, correct? If so, then that is what I had done trying to tune VVE, lol. So if I'm on the right track, how will I need to go about disabling the MAF for VVE tuning? I believe I will go to Engine Diag-Mass Airflow Sensor, & minimize [MAF Frequency Fail] High & Low? If that is correct, then what about the part concerning the DFCO & CFCO-is that a part of disabling for VVE tuning. I know these questions are elementary but to a newbie, info removes a lot of doubt/concern.

I pulled an injector & numbers on it are: 13726173103, 80527, 7-27-07-13-013325, >PA6<, 0230158, the number 927 is enclosed in an oval shape, what looks like the number 850 is hand scribed on the side of the connector. Will gladly send a pic if needed. I couldn't come up with anything on that part number.

[LS ROB]

Thanks so much, I fully understand. Now the disabling you mentioned is disabling VVE for tuning the MAF, correct? If so, then that is what I had done trying to tune VVE, lol. So if I'm on the right track, how will I need to go about disabling the MAF for VVE tuning? I believe I will go to Engine Diag-Mass Airflow Sensor, & minimize [MAF Frequency Fail] High & Low? If that is correct, then what about the part concerning the DFCO & CFCO-is that a part of disabling for VVE tuning. I know these questions are elementary but to a newbie, info removes a lot of doubt/concern.

I pulled an injector & numbers on it are: 13726173103, 80527, 7-27-07-13-013325, >PA6<, 0230158, the number 927 is enclosed in an oval shape, what looks like the number 850 is hand scribed on the side of the connector. Will gladly send a pic if needed. I couldn't come up with anything on that part number.

Using the 80527 number i pulled up FAST 65lb injectors. Did they come with a data sheet?

Yes, you disable VVE to tune MAF and disable MAF to tune VVE. You are correct in the way you disable MAF. Leave DFCO, CFCO, & COT, disabled while tuning. I'd set FUEL> PE>Throttle, to somewhere around 80 instead of 25, so that you will not enter PE and skew your data. You only want to tune up to part throttle using the fuel trims, so keep that in mind. Ls7's use both High and Low Octane tables even when reverting to speed density, so, If you haven't updated your spark table since pulling the SC, I would suggest copying over spark tables from a stock file to start with. But first we need to verify the injectors and the data or you will just be chasing your tail trying to tune it. Sorry, but im not sure how to scale injectors yet.

[Les10]

Using the 80527 number i pulled up FAST 65lb injectors. Did they come with a data sheet?

Yes, you disable VVE to tune MAF and disable MAF to tune VVE. You are correct in the way you disable MAF. Leave DFCO, CFCO, & COT, disabled while tuning. I'd set FUEL> PE>Throttle, to somewhere around 80 instead of 25, so that you will not enter PE and skew your data. You only want to tune up to part throttle using the fuel trims, so keep that in mind. Ls7's use both High and Low Octane tables even when reverting to speed density, so, If you haven't updated your spark table since pulling the SC, I would suggest copying over spark tables from a stock file to start with. But first we need to verify the injectors and the data or you will just be chasing your tail trying to tune it. Sorry, but im not sure how to scale injectors yet.

No I don't have any injector data. They were installed as part of the package by Horspower Addicts in Delaware when the A&A Supercharger kit was installed. So for the Throttle settings you mentioned, is that for MAF the tuning only?

I had already copied over the Base Spark table from a stock LS7 tune. Is the Base table all I need or is there more to it? Do I need to copy the Coastdown, Minimum Spark Base & Reduced Power tables also. How about the Base High & Low Octane tables? Do I need to copy & paste every table in the Spark Section? I don't have any problem doing it, just need to know if should or not. Thanks!

[LS ROB]

No I don't have any injector data. They were installed as part of the package by Horspower Addicts in Delaware when the A&A Supercharger kit was installed. So for the Throttle settings you mentioned, is that for MAF the tuning only?

I had already copied over the Base Spark table from a stock LS7 tune. Is the Base table all I need or is there more to it? Do I need to copy the Coastdown, Minimum Spark Base & Reduced Power tables also. How about the Base High & Low Octane tables? Do I need to copy & paste every table in the Spark Section? I don't have any problem doing it, just need to know if should or not. Thanks!

Just the Base idle & coastdown along with the High & Low octane. You may want to reach out to Blindsquirrel to see if he can help with verifying the injector data. Again, my knowledge is limited when it comes to injector data. As for the throttle settings, i would leave them increased while tuning MAF & VVE.

[Les10]

Just the Base idle & coastdown along with the High & Low octane. You may want to reach out to Blindsquirrel to see if he can help with verifying the injector data. Again, my knowledge is limited when it comes to injector data. As for the throttle settings, i would leave them increased while tuning MAF & VVE.

Info provided is that the hand scribed '850' on the injector connector body is a claim that they were flow tested to 850 cu/cm/min (to assure enough flow for the supercharger setup?). What is downside to leaving/using these injectors in lieu of the smaller rated 42lb-ers?

[LS ROB]

I see. If they don't have actual data, it will be hard to scale for your tune. That will result in you constantly chasing your tail anytime you try to tune it.

[LS ROB]

So, it looks like you have a couple of options. 1.) Contact the folks you got the injectors from and see if they can provide a data sheet. OR 2.) Purchase new GM injectors with known data. Myself, I opted to purchase the 50lb injectors that blindsquirrel suggested in another thread a while back. I did have to use a small spacer under the fuel rail. I used 4 nuts that i had in my hardware drawer as spacers and they are hidden well. Those injectors were super cheap! If you are interested and cant get data for the injectors you have, then i would suggest ordering some. I'll try to find the thread.


Think this is it... https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...hoe-needs-help Click on the ebay link blindsquirrel provided. Looks like they're $55 for ALL 8! If i remember correctly, you will need to change one of the rubber grommets on the injectors to fit the ls7 intake. (just looked; its the lower one) I ordered some and have some left over. I would be willing to mail some to you if interested.

[Les10]

LS ROB, you & others have been sharing knowledge trying to help me with Fuel Trim tuning on my LS7. I realize now that I would be better off buying new injectors since I don't have the injector data from my 65# Fast (80527)'s to input into the tune. LS ROB shared some of your previous posts for budget priced high quality injectors that will work for my application & I want to make sure I fully understand all the pieces before I proceed. First I need to order the injectors from Ebay [www.ebay.com/itm/274424906026], next I need to order the lower orings to adapt to the intake manifold from McMaster-Carr [https://www.mcmaster.com/9262K994]. Per the sizing chart it looks like I will have to space the rail up by 5/16". Am I understanding correctly? Thanks!!

[Les10]

Trying to adjust MAF & VVE at the same time/with the same tune file settings?

LS ROB, you & others have been sharing knowledge trying to help me with Fuel Trim tuning on my LS7. I realize now that I would be better off buying new injectors since I don't have the injector data from my 65# Fast (80527)'s to input into the tune. LS ROB shared some of your previous posts for budget priced high quality injectors that will work for my application & I want to make sure I fully understand all the pieces before I proceed. First I need to order the injectors from Ebay [www.ebay.com/itm/274424906026], next I need to order the lower orings to adapt to the intake manifold from McMaster-Carr [https://www.mcmaster.com/9262K994]. Per the sizing chart it looks like I will have to space the rail up by 5/16". Am I understanding correctly? Thanks!!

[Les10]

So, it looks like you have a couple of options. 1.) Contact the folks you got the injectors from and see if they can provide a data sheet. OR 2.) Purchase new GM injectors with known data. Myself, I opted to purchase the 50lb injectors that blindsquirrel suggested in another thread a while back. I did have to use a small spacer under the fuel rail. I used 4 nuts that i had in my hardware drawer as spacers and they are hidden well. Those injectors were super cheap! If you are interested and cant get data for the injectors you have, then i would suggest ordering some. I'll try to find the thread.


Think this is it... https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...hoe-needs-help Click on the ebay link blindsquirrel provided. Looks like they're $55 for ALL 8! If i remember correctly, you will need to change one of the rubber grommets on the injectors to fit the ls7 intake. (just looked; its the lower one) I ordered some and have some left over. I would be willing to mail some to you if interested.

I reached out to Blindsquirrel to firm up what you shared with me, I'm ready to order.
Thanks!

[LS ROB]

Yes, you are correct. Once you get the injectors, they will need scaled for your setup. Once that's done, you're ready to tune.

[Les10]

Yes, you are correct. Once you get the injectors, they will need scaled for your setup. Once that's done, you're ready to tune.

Just ordered the injectors & o-rings. When you say they need to be scaled for my setup, that means enter the data that comes with the injectors into the tune, right? Thanks!!

[LS ROB]

Good deal. I don't think you will get a sheet with the data on it but the data for those injectors are available. Once you get them, we can see if we can get some help with scaling them if needed.

[blindsquirrel]

Not 'scaling', that's something altogether different.

[blindsquirrel]

What is the fuel system - regulator type? Rail pressure?

[LS ROB]

Not 'scaling', that's something altogether different.

I'm paying attention here...

[blindsquirrel]

Changing injector data is just changing injector data, nothing gets rescaled. Scaling is either injector scaling, where the flow rate is bigger than the table's limit, or airflow scaling where you think (for some inscrutable reason) there's a need to have control of timing beyond the cylinder airmass limit in the spark tables (letting it carry whatever's in the last row is almost always just fine).

Oh, and some airflow scaling is because of hitting the 512g/s MAF limit. Airflow scaling is usually the edge cases, not common stuff.

[LS ROB]

Ahh. ok, gotcha. So basically what we are looking for here is whether he has a vacuum line going to the intake from his regulator?